California screws everyone with ridiculous housing and insane taxes (sales, unemployment rate)

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by victorhernandez

The feeling I get from reading the responses to this thread is just a bunch of people from conservative states who would die to be able to afford living in California and the fact that they can't makes them desperate to find reasons to hate on the richest, most successful state in America.

Yes California is an expensive place for a reason, you get what you pay for, and yes it's for the most part a very liberal place and that isn't changing any soon judging from the last elections patterns, it's not your whining that's going to change that. Californians tend to live in California because they like the fact that it's a liberal and progressive place, has that ever occurred to your guys?

Just get over it, if you want cheap and conservative I suggest Alabama or Arkansas

Utterly ridiculous. You know this thread was reaching some state of nuance and then you come and wreck it with this self praising post. And then it has to get political? Why? Why tie in CAs identity with just liberal politics, there are a lot of conservatives who may feel just like you do but don't interject the dumb virtue signaling politics. This is bordering on trolling because I can't tell if you're serious or not but if you are then it was a serious triggering moment on par with the nutty stuff on Tumblr.

I know plenty of rich people in the OC who hate the states politics but love the state. Should they leave? I mean way to be inclusive.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Utterly ridiculous. You know this thread was reaching some state of nuance and then you come and wreck it with this self praising post. And then it has to get political? Why? Why tie in CAs identity with just liberal politics, there are a lot of conservatives who may feel just like you do but don't interject the dumb virtue signaling politics. This is bordering on trolling because I can't tell if you're serious or not but if you are then it was a serious triggering moment on par with the nutty stuff on Tumblr.

I know plenty of rich people in the OC who hate the states politics but love the state. Should they leave? I mean way to be inclusive.

You are correct on both parts. I hope he is not a Liberal because he is giving them a bad name.

[victorhernandez]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Utterly ridiculous. You know this thread was reaching some state of nuance and then you come and wreck it with this self praising post. And then it has to get political? Why? Why tie in CAs identity with just liberal politics, there are a lot of conservatives who may feel just like you do but don't interject the dumb virtue signaling politics. This is bordering on trolling because I can't tell if you're serious or not but if you are then it was a serious triggering moment on par with the nutty stuff on Tumblr.

I know plenty of rich people in the OC who hate the states politics but love the state. Should they leave? I mean way to be inclusive.

I was referring to the people who are criticizing California on this thread, which I read entirely and the posts basically consist on people who don't live here trying to bash the state citing its politics and high cost of living, well guess what, most people who live here like and support its politics, I'm tired of seeing bitter non-californians calling it "socialist", "communist" etc when it's clear that they're just bitter they can't afford to live here so they keep trying to find reasons to hate it.
Why is California bashing ok but a California resident standing up for his state "utterly ridiculous"? Get real

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by victorhernandez

I was referring to the people who are criticizing California on this thread, which I read entirely and the posts basically consist on people who don't live here trying to bash the state citing its politics and high cost of living, well guess what, most people who live here like and support its politics, I'm tired of seeing bitter non-californians calling it "socialist", "communist" etc when it's clear that they're just bitter they can't afford to live here so they keep trying to find reasons to hate it.
Why is California bashing ok but a California resident standing up for his state "utterly ridiculous"? Get real

Because I wouldn't say they're all bashing it. Some offer perspective and other truly do whine, but this idea that it's all out of jealousy or envy is preposterous. People in CA, who love the state and worry about it bring up some of the more salient points brought up in here. I mean really you're making this ideological and attaching CA to liberal politics as if it's identity is wrapped up around it. I think CA also has a history of being somewhat of a red state too. Pockets of it are known to be conservative, are they any less Californian? Some share similar sentiments to posters in here. Are their opinions less valid?

What you're doing is what I suspected this whole debate is really about, it isn't about defending CA, its about defending liberalism and thinking that if an inch is given to actually addressing concerns people out in red states or conservatives in CA bring up about CA that it's giving in to right wingism.

I'm more pragmatic and have tried to look at it more nuanced yet people like you won't accept anything less than CA is supreme and these people are just haters. I mean that is a high schoolers approach to everyone calling her a witch, and all she can respond is, y'all are just jealous. It's like when a rap star wear's a ridiculous clothing item that everyone finds gaudy and extravagant and in poor taste but he just says, y'all some haters.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Kevdawgg

California used to be a good state to live in, I suppose. But it has been a disaster for the past few decades, all thanks to communists who gained control.

But, truthfully, New Jersey isn't much better. It also has high taxes--especially property taxes--and mediocre/lousy public services. Its bond rating is actually lower than California's. Housing is somewhat cheaper, but not by a lot in Northern NJ.

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by Owl is dumb

Rofl. You say that when the very first post in this joke of a thread is a giant troll.

What a joke.

Did you have to create a sock puppet?

I meant the entire thread isn't a total loss. The debate was reaching some nuance. I mean what do want? Just for everyone in here to just say, "CA is AWESOME, you guys in the heartland can suck it!!!" That seems to be the level of discourse you want,eh?

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by jnojr

It's expensive because people want to live here, and they don't believe NV, AZ, UT, OR, etc. are "better deals". Me, I love San Diego, and if it wasn't in CA, I'd stay forever! As it is, we will be moving soon.

No, actually, it's expensive primarily because CA doesn't build enough housing, which jacks up home prices and rents. NV, AZ, & UT all have faster population growth rates than CA (not sure about OR).

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by DawnW

Name them.

Nobody is going to cite all those arcane statutes. But pretty much anyone who does a google search can find out that California is more heavily regulated and more highly taxed than most states.

I'll start with an article here for you...from a Democrat who voted for Jerry Brown, btw:

Fixing California: The Green Gentry

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by DawnW

Well, I don't really joke around with stuff like that. It isn't funny. People who live in actual communist countries would give anything to even live in "commie" California.

While these folks do exaggerate, they do have a point. If you take a look, California, and America have much more government control than they used to. Heck, I'm only in my 40s and I see the difference compared to when I was growing up in the 80s. We aren't communist--yet--but we're going in that direction in step by step fashion. Or should I say corporate fascist? In truth those 2 forms of dictatorship are 2 different masks on the same face, yet so many people fight each other about which one is "better" or they don't even see what's happening right under their noses.

[radiolibre99]

Didn't Obama's administration release a report on how the high rents and disparities are linked to outdated zoning laws, NIMBYism, and land use regulations?

Obama takes on zoning laws in bid to build more housing, spur growth - POLITICO

I mean the governor acknowledges it, local city governments do to which is why there is this kerfuffle about politicians giving exemptions to developers in exchange for support, etc. This stretches across the political spectrum. I am actually surprised that I hear so called market conservatives rant and rave about the free market yet are quick to join third party orgs that lobby to restrict supply. I am not against the notion of communities preserving QOL but when the pendulum swings too much in favor of NIMBYism and red tape, something should be examined.

I actually learned about this issue first from libertarian/conservative economist and commentator Thomas Sowell.