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Again you are showing you either do not know what you are talking about or are ignoring the facts (And ignoring my 50 mile as not accurate, and even then it was close). Only 1 car, the Tesla, got over 100 miles. The others were all below that. Then the time it takes to charge is far longer than refueling a gas car. Plays havoc with driving any distance. Then the electricity must come from somewhere and that is ... power plants.
I was also speaking of ... Hybrids, which have an engine and an electric motor driven by batteries. Two engines as it were. Thus higher costs..
What you wrote is plaiin for anyone to read. You wrote that electric drives result in higher costs to maintain and repair. They dont. And even if you meant hybrids they still dont cost more to maintain and repair because the electric drives have virtually zero maintainance or repair and they reduce the amount of miles/hours on the internal combustion engine - which, obviously, results in less wear on that component.
As for your claim of 50 miles being "close", it really wasn't. 9 of the 11 cars exampled in that review got 50% more than 50 miles per charge. 50% increase is not "close" by anyone's math. And most of them were "closer" to 100 miles than they were to "50 miles"
But the point easily drawn from the examples and reading is that the electrice drive technology including battery technology is rapidly advancing. The pressure to comply with regulations is a major component of that drive to develop. In the years remaing for the mandates there will be much increase in performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Finally I do know what I am talking about as one of my technologies is being examined by Tesla. One by FORD specifically as an aid to extended mileage and all tests to date by others show it does. I have been involved in this area for over 20 years.
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This is the internet sir. Anybody can claim to be anything, a millionaire, a scholar, a business entrepreneur, an inventor, etc. you post all over this forum on a very wide range of topics. All as if you are expert in them all. Yet your posts are very often riddled with errors and demonstrate a great lack of understanding of the topics. Just recently you ridiculed supporters of secession by stating that when Obama was elected no one in other states threatened to secede when in fact secession movements were launched in 50 out of 50 states after the 2012 election. A fact very widely reported across all media. Why would anyone believe you are a developer of technology being considered by Tesla and Ford? Especially since you represented such ignorance about electric drive maintainance and repair costs and didnt know the average driving range of many of the market's leading EV's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Here is the problem.
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The problem is you keep trying to be expert in things you have little knowledge of.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,649,867 times
Reputation: 14046
Why is it that electric cars are regarded as having zero emissions? Do our legislators not know that tires and brake pads upon their use release particles into the air? That filthy black muck that dirties your finger when you touch the side of a road is from tire and brake pad particles.
Why is it that electric cars are regarded as having zero emissions? Do our legislators not know that tires and brake pads upon their use release particles into the air? That filthy black muck that dirties your finger when you touch the side of a road is from tire and brake pad particles.
Is this for real? Emissions have to do with the exhaust of the engines which contain gasses. Not the dust produced by tires and breaks LOL. So you're stating that because tires and breaks are still going to be used that we should just scrap the whole idea? LMAO! Come on. I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and sh1t a better argument than that LOL
Why is it that electric cars are regarded as having zero emissions? Do our legislators not know that tires and brake pads upon their use release particles into the air? That filthy black muck that dirties your finger when you touch the side of a road is from tire and brake pad particles.
Many electric and electric/hybrid vehicles (if not all) have regenerative braking. Not only does it reduce the wear and tear on brake pads but it also produces electricity for the vehicle. So either way electric vehicles produce much less particles from braking.
What you wrote is plaiin for anyone to read. You wrote that electric drives result in higher costs to maintain and repair. They dont. And even if you meant hybrids they still dont cost more to maintain and repair because the electric drives have virtually zero maintainance or repair and they reduce the amount of miles/hours on the internal combustion engine - which, obviously, results in less wear on that component.
As for your claim of 50 miles being "close", it really wasn't. 9 of the 11 cars exampled in that review got 50% more than 50 miles per charge. 50% increase is not "close" by anyone's math. And most of them were "closer" to 100 miles than they were to "50 miles"
But the point easily drawn from the examples and reading is that the electrice drive technology including battery technology is rapidly advancing. The pressure to comply with regulations is a major component of that drive to develop. In the years remaing for the mandates there will be much increase in performance.
This is the internet sir. Anybody can claim to be anything, a millionaire, a scholar, a business entrepreneur, an inventor, etc. you post all over this forum on a very wide range of topics. All as if you are expert in them all. Yet your posts are very often riddled with errors and demonstrate a great lack of understanding of the topics. Just recently you ridiculed supporters of secession by stating that when Obama was elected no one in other states threatened to secede when in fact secession movements were launched in 50 out of 50 states after the 2012 election. A fact very widely reported across all media. Why would anyone believe you are a developer of technology being considered by Tesla and Ford? Especially since you represented such ignorance about electric drive maintainance and repair costs and didnt know the average driving range of many of the market's leading EV's?
The problem is you keep trying to be expert in things you have little knowledge of.
Can't admit you are wrong can you.
Try and find the price of replacing the batteries in an electric car and a hybrid and tell me the total cost is less than a standard engine, which is a second cost issue in a hybrid, plus the electric motors the batteries drive. Learn a bit before posting.
As to what I do, sorry you can believe what you will, as I don't care. The first several cars were close to 50MPG which is what I said was close. Regardless, as all but the Tesla have a distance problem and there is minimal places for them to re-charge. Check and see. Electric is fine for in City driving for short distances and that is it. Which is why they do not sell well. Now try driving to Las Vegas in an all electric car.
Despite their rapid growth, plug-in electric cars represented 0.15% of the 1.4 billion motor vehicles on the world's roads by the end of 2016, up from 0.1% in 2015.[1][5]
Now try driving to Las Vegas in an all electric car.It is only 263 miles to there from LA and I am sure the time would be close to the same time in a normal car and there are surely plenty of battery charging locations along the way.
Try and find the price of replacing the batteries in an electric car and a hybrid and tell me the total cost is less than a standard engine, which is a second cost issue in a hybrid, plus the electric motors the batteries drive. Learn a bit before posting.
As to what I do, sorry you can believe what you will, as I don't care. The first several cars were close to 50MPG which is what I said was close. Regardless, as all but the Tesla have a distance problem and there is minimal places for them to re-charge. Check and see. Electric is fine for in City driving for short distances and that is it. Which is why they do not sell well. Now try driving to Las Vegas in an all electric car.
Despite their rapid growth, plug-in electric cars represented 0.15% of the 1.4 billion motor vehicles on the world's roads by the end of 2016, up from 0.1% in 2015.[1][5]
Now try driving to Las Vegas in an all electric car.It is only 263 miles to there from LA and I am sure the time would be close to the same time in a normal car and there are surely plenty of battery charging locations along the way.
Keep posting, it is entertaining.
Why admit a false accusation is true? Lets recap: you started this exchange by claiming electric drives are more costly to repair and maintain. Even if in hybrids that is not true
Quote:
Hybrids like the 2011 Toyota Prius cost more to repair and maintain, right?
It would seem, given all the additional technical complexity and computational wizardry in hybrids, that they would. And it's a myth that's certainly made the rounds among backyard mechanics. But it hasn't proven true. With the oldest Toyota Prius models now more than ten years old, and hundreds and thousands of Prius models on U.S. roads (and about 900,000 sold), there's no rush on replacement batteries, no rash of Priuses needing costly powertrain components replaced. They've proven surprisingly...bulletproof.
Battery replacement hasn't shown to be the issue that it was feared to be, either. Many of those oldest Prius models are beyond 150,000 miles and still using their original nickel-metal hydride battery pack. Though the full cost of replacing the battery pack still roughly $3,000, a number of specialist shops have emerged that are willing to do it for a bit less—or to soften the blow on older or collision-damaged models, repair the Prius' pack by replacing only one or several of its cells.
In an era when $3,000 is about the starting price for a good automatic-transmission rebuild—or the cost of a couple other major repairs to the front end, or air conditioning—that doesn't sound so horrible.
Repairs might cost more, but they're less frequent
A study last year, by an insurance-claims analysis firm, found that repairs to the Prius cost about 8.4 percent more than equivalent repairs on other models. In that same study, vehicles such as the Honda Civic Hybrid and Toyota Camry Hybrid only cost slightly more than their non-hybrid counterparts, so much of this due to the lack of used and aftermarket parts.
Of course, ultimately, the Prius has shown that it needs to be repaired less often than many other compacts, and that's one of the keys to its ownership-cost savings.
Also, brake pads tend to last longer, as regenerative braking from the powertrain helps them out, and in theory, the electric motor system helps spare the ol' gasoline-burner, so you might be able to go longer between oil changes. Frugal Shopper: No, Hybrids Don't Cost More To Repair And Maintain
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Equally important for car owners was the list of 10 costliest repairs. In 2014, replacing the transmission assembly ($6,400) topped the list, followed by engine replacement ($5,500) and transmission repair ($5,400). The data served as a reminder of how electric vehicles generally have a lower cost of ownership.
Last fall, Coverhound Insurance released a study showing how electric vehicles are cheaper to insure (and in most cases, own) than their combustion-engine equivalents. The biggest reason was the lack of moving parts in an electric drivetrain, not to mention the lack of a transmission, the biggest hit on a vehicle owner’s wallet in the CarMD study. Why Hybrid Car Repair Costs Continue to Fall
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While the higher amount of components in a hybrid should translate into higher maintenance costs over time, particularly due to the expensive battery, that is not always true. According to Phil Reed of Edmunds.com, some Toyota Prius hybrids used in taxi service in Canada have gone more than 200,000 miles without needing the batteries changed. Rodgers says, "In the 12 years that I have dealt with the Toyota hybrid system at our dealership, we have replaced four drive batteries for voltage issues. It is a very dependable battery. The cost for battery replacement has also dropped dramatically. In the early 2000s, the cost was about $5,500 for the replacement. Today, it is closer to $2,500, due to the availability of reconditioned batteries." https://www.quicken.com/hybrid-cars-...ces-make-sense
As for "learning a bit before posting" you'd do well to heed your own advice there. Seems only one of us can back up what he posts. True of many of your other topic posts elsewhere as noted.
Distance? Wasn't any part of your claim that is being corrected. It is an entirely separate issue from your claim about costs to repair and maintain. Meanwhile, of 11 examples in the first citation two had over 20% greater range than you touted as average and the other 9 had more than 50% greater range than your claimed average - up to over 100%. And range is steadily advancing. The point isn't that EV's and hybrids have a great range, its that your lack of knowledge on the subject appears to make you not worth taking seriously.
Under the clean air act Calif. has explicit permission to set emissions standards that can be more stringent than the federal governments.
Whats yet unknown whether Trump will revoke the California waiver.
At issue are standards for fuel efficiency and greenhouse gas emissions that were 1st set in 2010 by the EPA. Which require overall fuel efficiency of 54.5 MPG.
The automakers say this is a mortal threat to their survival and to autoworker employment.
Hybrids and EV account for only 3.5% of vehicle sales.
LA Times 3-19
I sure hope Trump stops allowing Calif. to have stricter smog laws than the rest of the states. Our smog regulators have to keep regulating more and more or they lose their cushy high paying jobs. Enough.
Obamas mileage requirements are why automakers are now coming out with little tiny motors in still big heavy cars killing performance. If Trump eliminates unrealistic mileage requirements we can get back to common sense.
And those little tiny turbocharged motors in heavy cars will be dying early deaths as well. Particularly those with stop-start, which will be nightmares down the road a few years.
I'm with you and am overjoyed to see Trump trying to restore some sanity to the automotive regulatory world.
And those little tiny turbocharged motors in heavy cars will be dying early deaths as well. Particularly those with stop-start, which will be nightmares down the road a few years.
I'm with you and am overjoyed to see Trump trying to restore some sanity to the automotive regulatory world.
Nonsense! Stop-start systems have been in use now for nearly ten years without any problems. And, the only real potential problem is bearing wear, which is prevented by using higher-quality bearings.
Nonsense! Stop-start systems have been in use now for nearly ten years without any problems. And, the only real potential problem is bearing wear, which is prevented by using higher-quality bearings.
As predictable as the sunrise....a vigorous defense of engineering lunacy in the very next post.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,649,867 times
Reputation: 14046
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858
Many electric and electric/hybrid vehicles (if not all) have regenerative braking. Not only does it reduce the wear and tear on brake pads but it also produces electricity for the vehicle. So either way electric vehicles produce much less particles from braking.
But driving an EV still makes more pollutants that a horse and buggy. So then, what do you say to the hardcore environmentalists who want EV drivers to trade in their brake and tire dust creator for a horse and buggy?
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