Remember How Great California Was? (Monterey: top schools, versus, approval)

[Joe33]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

The system is neither corrupt nor dysfunctional. What happened to the California school system is the result of prop 13. The state never made up for the money the schools lost through it. Lack of school funding remains an issue in California's schools. Look at the best schools in the US and almost all of them spend more per pupil than California.

And there is no 'leftist content' pushed on children, nor are there any communists running the system, that just sounds delusional

How do you come up with this?
I used to do a lot of work for LAUSD.
I wont necessary say it is corrupt, But it is highly wasteful and full of institutionalized inequalities and favoritism that do nothing but drive up costs.
Last February I was doing some engineering work at 10 different schools and didnt see a single presidents day poster or something similar. Lots of Che posters thou.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Joe33

How do you come up with this?
I used to do a lot of work for LAUSD.
I wont necessary say it is corrupt, But it is highly wasteful and full of institutionalized inequalities and favoritism that do nothing but drive up costs.
Last February I was doing some engineering work at 10 different schools and didnt see a single presidents day poster or something similar. Lots of Che posters thou.

President's day poster? Never in my life have I seen a school with a "president's day poster" either in California or Nevada. And again you have zero support for your questionable claims about institutionalized inequalities and favoritism, but even if you can support those- how is California any different than any other school district?

[Joe33]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

President's day poster? Never in my life have I seen a school with a "president's day poster" either in California or Nevada. And again you have zero support for your questionable claims about institutionalized inequalities and favoritism, but even if you can support those- how is California any different than any other school district?

My experience is with LAUSD.
California is not a school district.
Im really wondering where you went to school and they didnt celebrate presidents day.......

Look up PSA agreement. It is a agreement between LAUSD and the Labor unions. If you are a non unionized company, you still are required to pay into the union and hire union employees. You can only use 4 of your own employees and they all are required to join the union and pay fringes that they will never receive. You can only have one employee on the job site and the next has to be a union member.

But california as a whole had the same program. Favoritism towards the unions.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Joe33

My experience is with LAUSD.
California is not a school district.

I know that California is not a school district.

Originally Posted by Joe33

Im really wondering where you went to school and they didnt celebrate presidents day.......

That's not what I said, you complained about the lack of "President Day Posters" which I said I have never seen and I'm 70 years old, I went to school in California, I have kids who went to school in California and I have grandkid's who go to school in both California and Nevada and I have yet to see a "president day poster" In both states President's day is a school holiday so I am puzzled as to what exactly you are trying to argue here.

Originally Posted by Joe33

Look up PSA agreement. It is a agreement between LAUSD and the Labor unions. If you are a non unionized company, you still are required to pay into the union and hire union employees. You can only use 4 of your own employees and they all are required to join the union and pay fringes that they will never receive. You can only have one employee on the job site and the next has to be a union member.

You probably should read this, pay particular attention to page 16: "No employee shall be required to join any union as a condition of being employed, or remaining employed for the completion of Project Work"

http://www.laschools.org/documents/d...de_Letters.pdf

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

you're right in that better teacher training, less faddishness in the selection of methodologies...

I think it has little to do with teacher training. Teachers already spend an entire year doing student teaching before they become teachers, and those who can't teach, can't maintain order in the classroom, can't engage the students, etc......wash out.

There aren't "better" teachers in the top ranked school districts in California (Palo Alto, San Marino, Newport Mesa, Laguna Beach, La Canada, Beverly Hills, Palos Verdes, etc)....those districts just have more motivated students because their PARENTS have made sure that education is a top priority. It's the kid (which is a function of multiple factors), not the teacher or the school district. And it is a catch-22 cycle.

[Joe33]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I know that California is not a school district.
That's not what I said, you complained about the lack of "President Day Posters" which I said I have never seen and I'm 70 years old, I went to school in California, I have kids who went to school in California and I have grandkid's who go to school in both California and Nevada and I have yet to see a "president day poster" In both states President's day is a school holiday so I am puzzled as to what exactly you are trying to argue here.


You probably should read this, pay particular attention to page 16: "No employee shall be required to join any union as a condition of being employed, or remaining employed for the completion of Project Work"

http://www.laschools.org/documents/d...de_Letters.pdf

Glad you read it.
Ive been involved with this since they wrote in in 2003. Ive had a few legal issues too and have paid perhaps 250k to lawyers trying to decipher exactly what means what in this document.
However you dont actually get to join the union. You are like a union stepchild. You pay for all and receive nothing. The core employee is dispatched from the union hiring hall exactly the same as the regular union journeyman.. Read at the top of page 15 to where it says you are required to REGISTER with the union and the company has to do what is called a letter of assent agreeing to follow all union rules and paying all fringes. Which you dont get. go to the back and read the legal determinations.

BTW am older than you and have many kids and grandkids and there has always been some sort of activities involving presidents day including students painting posters.

[TheMandarin]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

I think it has little to do with teacher training. Teachers already spend an entire year doing student teaching before they become teachers, and those who can't teach, can't maintain order in the classroom, can't engage the students, etc......wash out.

There aren't "better" teachers in the top ranked school districts in California (Palo Alto, San Marino, Newport Mesa, Laguna Beach, La Canada, Beverly Hills, Palos Verdes, etc)....those districts just have more motivated students because their PARENTS have made sure that education is a top priority. It's the kid (which is a function of multiple factors), not the teacher or the school district. And it is a catch-22 cycle.

Yep. Have to educate the parents to explain why education is important. But then you have people like expatca telling us all how education is useless and everyone should go be a pluber in Tennessee. Interesting situation.

Different cultures put different values on education. East Asians, Indians, nigerians coastal elite whites, and jews put high value on education.

Hispanics, African Americans, and poor white trash not so much.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Joe33

Glad you read it.
Ive been involved with this since they wrote in in 2003. Ive had a few legal issues too and have paid perhaps 250k to lawyers trying to decipher exactly what means what in this document.
However you dont actually get to join the union. You are like a union stepchild. You pay for all and receive nothing. The core employee is dispatched from the union hiring hall exactly the same as the regular union journeyman.. Read at the top of page 15 to where it says you are required to REGISTER with the union and the company has to do what is called a letter of assent agreeing to follow all union rules and paying all fringes. Which you dont get. go to the back and read the legal determinations.

BTW am older than you and have many kids and grandkids and there has always been some sort of activities involving presidents day including students painting posters.

You said they have to join the union, I proved otherwise, end of argument. You said that no one in LA schools has "President Day Posters" you did not say that children drawing pictures counted as "posters". Kids learn about US Presidents in every school in California, whether they paint posters, have discussions, sing songs or participate in plays to reinforce learning seems irrelevant. The California required school curriculum is right here:
History-Social Science - Curriculum & Instruction (CA Dept of Education)

[Joe33]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

You said they have to join the union, I proved otherwise, end of argument. You said that no one in LA schools has "President Day Posters" you did not say that children drawing pictures counted as "posters". Kids learn about US Presidents in every school in California, whether they paint posters, have discussions, sing songs or participate in plays to reinforce learning seems irrelevant. The California required school curriculum is right here:
History-Social Science - Curriculum & Instruction (CA Dept of Education)

Explain exactly what is the difference between joining the union and registering with the union? Its even the same paperwork.
You are still bound to all union rules and regulations, must pay training fees for training you will never receive, You must pay into retirement which you will never receive, you must pay into health care which you will never receive. You must be dispatched to every job site just like any other union employee.

Read the PSA again. If you truly understand it and believe it is non biased and can prove it in court, then you stand to be rich and famous. Because no one else interprets it the way you do.

Children do draw posters. Did you forget about crayons and markers? Poster board. Its all still there and kids use it all the time.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

I think it has little to do with teacher training. Teachers already spend an entire year doing student teaching before they become teachers, and those who can't teach, can't maintain order in the classroom, can't engage the students, etc......wash out.

There aren't "better" teachers in the top ranked school districts in California (Palo Alto, San Marino, Newport Mesa, Laguna Beach, La Canada, Beverly Hills, Palos Verdes, etc)....those districts just have more motivated students because their PARENTS have made sure that education is a top priority. It's the kid (which is a function of multiple factors), not the teacher or the school district. And it is a catch-22 cycle.

I think it's some of everything I mentioned (and I did mention parental involvement), and more. Some teacher training is a joke; trainees may get assigned to a teacher who isn't involved in actual training. Weird things happen in the year-long teacher-training; lots of stories about that on the Teaching sub-forum here. As for those elite public schools on the Peninsula, kids can still act up for ineffective teachers. I've seen kids who behave themselves for most teachers (talking about the kind of kids you reference in your Peninsula example) go wild in the class of a teacher who doesn't have good classroom discipline skills, and is a bit of a pushover.

Anyway, the issues are complex, needless to say.