projected cost per inmate for next year: $75,560 (homes, middle school)

[LuvSouthOC]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

And I ignored it because it's absolute nonsense. Inmates do the work inside and outside prisons to keep the facilities running, they mow lawns, mop floors, do the laundry, sew inmate uniforms and build furniture for the prisons and for other state offices. Do you want to spend another $5,000 or $10,000 per inmate in order to hire people to do the work that inmates are doing now so you could get your 'pound of flesh' knowing that they are breaking rocks?

It is not absolute nonsense in the least. Hard labor is not cruel and unusual. Military tribunals still use it. The hard labor done should not go on forever, only a fairly brief period.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

It is not absolute nonsense in the least. Hard labor is not cruel and unusual. Military tribunals still use it. The hard labor done should not go on forever, only a fairly brief period.

I never said it was cruel or unusual did I? Prison labor is used to run the prison, not to provide people with some weird sense of satisfaction that inmates are suffering. But feel free to call your state assembly member and have them write a bill that requires inmates to do hard labor, then we can hire civilians to do the work inmates are now doing so that the prisoners can do 'hard labor', I'm sure there are unemployed people in this state who would thank you for those good paying jobs!

If you want prison inmates to do hard labor they have to be transported to where the work will be done, so that probably means doing jobs like clearing rocks out of fields, right? Well CDCR used to provide inmate labor to local communities for jobs like that and had to stop because the locals couldn't afford to reimburse the prison system for the cost of transportation and guarding the inmates. It was cheaper for them to hire local labor or use jail inmates.

Personally I don't care one way or the other, I'm just trying to point out that there are costs associated with what you are suggesting.

[Bill the Butcher]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Since you do not sit on the Supreme Court your opinion while important to you, is of no consequence. The court decided what constitutes appropriate treatment for inmates and the state has to deal with it.

But isn't everything open to change if it goes through the write channels? Are there not groups that still hope to have the Supreme Court someday overrule Roe vs. Wade? I'm not saying it's likely but the OP asked for suggestions and if it is a possibility then it is a valid suggestion no matter how slim of a chance.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher

But isn't everything open to change if it goes through the write channels? Are there not groups that still hope to have the Supreme Court someday overrule Roe vs. Wade? I'm not saying it's likely but the OP asked for suggestions and if it is a possibility then it is a valid suggestion no matter how slim of a chance.

There is no chance that the Supreme Court will rescind their ruling regarding California prisons, you would have to read Plata v Brown to understand why. The state had many chances to correct the deficiencies but failed to do so. (details of plaintiff's complaints start on page 2) https://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs...-0018-0088.pdf

The best thing for the State to do is to fix the public school system so that fewer kids end up in prison, the one thing that most prison inmates have in common is that they didn't finish school.

[Bill the Butcher]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

The best thing for the State to do is to fix the public school system so that fewer kids end up in prison, the one thing that most prison inmates have in common is that they didn't finish school.

That's a whole other can of worms. I'm convinced the issue there is 90% home life. I'm not sure how the state will fix broken homes and deadbeat parents.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher

That's a whole other can of worms. I'm convinced the issue there is 90% home life. I'm not sure how the state will fix broken homes and deadbeat parents.

It won't, as it views them as victims of narrow minded people.

That gets their vote.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher

That's a whole other can of worms. I'm convinced the issue there is 90% home life. I'm not sure how the state will fix broken homes and deadbeat parents.

Broken homes? I find that offensive, my husband moved out to live with his girlfriend when my kids were young, so yes they grew up in a 'broken home' but they graduated from college as do many kids with divorced parents. And I'm not sure what "deadbeat parents" means to you but I won't pursue that as I think it's off topic, but here's the reality and blame it on what you want but it's what we need to deal with if we want to spend less on prisons.

"The link between a poor education and incarceration is borne out in data. Dropouts are 3.5 times more likely to be arrested than high school graduates. Nationally, 68 percent of all males in prison do not have a high school diploma. Only 20 percent of California inmates demonstrate a basic level of literacy, and the average offender reads at an eighth grade level." Schools v. prisons: Education’s the way to cut prison population – The Mercury News

[Bill the Butcher]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Broken homes? I find that offensive, my husband moved out to live with his girlfriend when my kids were young, so yes they grew up in a 'broken home' but they graduated from college as do many kids with divorced parents.

Offensive? I'm the product of a broken home as well and managed to also graduate with a BS. Doesn't mean it is the best or right way for kids to be brought up or that some kids won't struggle. Of course there are successful divorced couples that still prioritize their kids.

You really think the school/state can fix the kid's home lives? Of the drop outs you quote, how many had an unstable/bad home life? I am going to guess the percentage is above 80%. And if that is the case, what is the real issue then?

How do you suggest we make sure these parents truly invest in their kids futures?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Broken homes? I find that offensive, my husband moved out to live with his girlfriend when my kids were young, so yes they grew up in a 'broken home' but they graduated from college as do many kids with divorced parents. And I'm not sure what "deadbeat parents" means to you but I won't pursue that as I think it's off topic, but here's the reality and blame it on what you want but it's what we need to deal with if we want to spend less on prisons.

"The link between a poor education and incarceration is borne out in data. Dropouts are 3.5 times more likely to be arrested than high school graduates. Nationally, 68 percent of all males in prison do not have a high school diploma. Only 20 percent of California inmates demonstrate a basic level of literacy, and the average offender reads at an eighth grade level." Schools v. prisons: Education’s the way to cut prison population – The Mercury News

You obviously did a good job. Unfortunately many do not. You are correct that graduation plays a major part as well, but the ones who do not graduate usually come from homes where it isn't seen as important, no one pays attention, a single parent family where the parent was working two jobs and had no time to watch the kids progress. Home life is still the most critical component.

Oh, my father died when I was 10 and my mother raised me. I learned from her to do what you have to, as long as it is legal, and I have done well because of her example.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

You obviously did a good job. Unfortunately many do not. You are correct that graduation plays a major part as well, but the ones who do not graduate usually come from homes where it isn't seen as important, no one pays attention, a single parent family where the parent was working two jobs and had no time to watch the kids progress. Home life is still the most critical component.
Oh, my father died when I was 10 and my mother raised me. I learned from her to do what you have to, as long as it is legal, and I have done well because of her example.

I don't disagree with you, some people just suck at parenting and others are working long hours and aren't home for their kids but I think there are things we could do:

• Free pre-school for every kid from age three.
• Full day kindergarten in every school.
• After school care on an affordable sliding scale for working parents in every school
• Encourage businesses to offer apprenticeship programs in high school
• Give corporations incentives (ok, tax breaks) if they will supply schools with tablets or computers and provide supplies and up to date school books.
• Establish a corps of grandparents who either for free or for a small amount of pay will tutor kids for a few hours a day, or in some cases just be there to listen their problems and concerns.

One of the cops I worked with who retired at the same time as I did got his teaching credential and went to work at the worst middle school in the area, I asked him why he picked that school & he responded: "there are a lot of boys in that school who don't have a dad in their household and they need a male role model or they will find some dope dealing thug to look up to, I want to change that for at least for a few of those kids"