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Old 07-05-2017, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Earth
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As recently as the '80s safe and sane fireworks were available in much more of California than they are today. There was some political scandal involving the fireworks industry that resulted in many cities banning fireworks. It didn't even involve safety issues or anything like that.

M80s and the like got banned nationally by the feds under LBJ.
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by majoun View Post
As recently as the '80s safe and sane fireworks were available in much more of California than they are today. There was some political scandal involving the fireworks industry that resulted in many cities banning fireworks. It didn't even involve safety issues or anything like that.

M80s and the like got banned nationally by the feds under LBJ.
So that's why, the best answer. Politics. Your post is the best post in this tread.

Kind of like what's happening with grocery bags these days. Bags arnt banned just one particular use of them. Ironically that use of them actually stopped a lot of other plastic wrapping that comes with our everyday products from blowing like confetti. Apparently bags in the aisles without handles arnt targeted and still flows freely as if they don't cause the same problems just because they are not at the checkout stand.

So in the end it appears once again its city politics vs fireworks industry. These bans don't work anyways as people either buy it in the next city. Or just go the "underground" market. Which in some places of the state are pretty open in practices. Many pockets of SF stores opening sell those dangerous stuff. So is Los Angeles city.

I also am pretty surprised both city and unincorporated San Diego and neighboring cities within a fifty mile radius non of them permit state legal fireworks stands. But they harbor a large black market fireworks market due to proximity to Mexico and the resulting smuggling north. It almost like they are trying to protect that market from competition which they can easily do as the nearest cities selling state approved fireworks are more than an hour drive away but the border is only a rock throw away.

Last edited by citizensadvocate; 07-05-2017 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:38 PM
 
Location: in a galaxy far far away
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Oh sure, if you're looking for the reason to be politics, you can find anything in history is connected to something political. I can't speak for all counties but I know that, at a time when it was banned in mine, it had to do with fire danger. We were in a severe drought and that was why. Our own local fireworks display was cancelled one year because it was so bad. But if you think it's all about politics, carry on. It's always fun to watch someone spin a tale.
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Old 07-05-2017, 11:00 PM
 
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I only answered as the last poster stated it was a political scandal.

So you think you will sleep better in cities that ban state legal stands,
Be careful what you wish for cities that ban fireworks stands are often worse in noise from those high powered contraband items as another poster mentioned. I guarantee you will not sleep easier in those cities within a month of Fourth of July. If you want to sleep better you better move to some where where your nearest neighbor is miles away.

As I always said when fire danger index is really high all means of human fire making from bonfires or campfires and even smoking will be restricted already. And in that case even professional fireworks displays would be cancelled. So there is no targeting a specific market or use of fire in this case. Everything gets equal treatment. On the flip side There is no reason for a city thats mostly rock surfaced and under fog or marine layer at nights to ban state approved stands particularly on a wet year.

Last edited by citizensadvocate; 07-05-2017 at 11:15 PM..
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Old 07-05-2017, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
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Originally Posted by citizensadvocate View Post
I only answered as the last poster stated it was a political scandal.

Be careful what you wish for cities that ban fireworks stands are worse in noise from those high powered contraband items. I guarantee you will not sleep easier in those cities within a month of Fourth of July.
I completely disagree with you. When I lived in Reno all fireworks were illegal so fewer people used any fireworks, if you reported fireworks noise the cops responded and warned or cited the people involved. In Sacramento people use both legal and illegal and as a result there is noise coming from so many places that cops just ignore all of it rather than to try to sort out what's legal and what isn't. A city-data forum member just had her apartment in Tacoma burn up because someone threw lit fireworks on her neighbors deck. //www.city-data.com/forum/48731339-post1.html

So I am very careful what I wish for, and what I wish for is a complete ban of anything other than public fireworks displays.
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Old 07-05-2017, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by citizensadvocate View Post
I only answered as the last poster stated it was a political scandal.
.
Patrick Moriarty and Red Devil Fireworks
TODAY'S FOCUS: Fireworks King Faces Racketeering, Bribery Trial
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Old 07-05-2017, 11:24 PM
 
Location: So. Calif
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Leave the Safe n Sane alone. I can deal with that. To have professional fireworks (Pyrotechnics) going off all around our homes is INSANE and asking for trouble. These are neighbors doing them - not big venues. They are ILLEGAL in Los Angeles County Unincorporated.
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Old 07-05-2017, 11:30 PM
 
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Thanks majoun, so that's the mystery what leading to bans of legal fireworks by local authorities. I am guessing a similar case is why checkout bags became magically more evil than all the other plastic material and bags since the 2000s. No agency back in the 1990s would even dream of such a measure in the 1990s.

And thanks california gal. Crack down on the black market instead. Many are imported from south of the border. I am not aware of any place in the US that permit commercial grade fireworks in non commercial settings so banning fireworks stands would not change a thing.

As for the other poster my experience in the Sf Bay Area and SoCal proves polar opposite from your experience in Reno. Things may be different out of state but I only speak of where I lived. Maybe your neighborhood in Reno is quieter and one in Sac county happens to be noise. Maybe it's tougher to smuggle fireworks there as it meanshours of driving. And lower density makes it hard to cover up fireworks. In the Bay Area where I lived not only do m80s and bottle rockets explode all night. They are often set off from The middle of roads. I almost crashed into a sideshow launched from the dark middle of the road. Yes those are high powered rockets, I could imagine if it went off a few seconds later while I unknowingly drove over it. I see about ten side shows going down a block.

I see quite a number of Cities with fireworks stands at least they have "fireworks" curfews, but cities that don't have stands often on have no fireworks curfews at all. And those cities actually make more of an effort to control the black market. Whereas some cities that offically bans firework stands, the black market operates almost as openly as any other business. Just Think Chinatown.

Kiddos to Arizona not only for legalizing firework stands but banning local bans on them in areas where fire danger is a non issue ie cities far away from the dry hills or in or around Phoenix

Last edited by citizensadvocate; 07-06-2017 at 12:56 AM..
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:07 AM
 
Location: in a galaxy far far away
19,158 posts, read 16,569,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citizensadvocate View Post
I only answered as the last poster stated it was a political scandal.

So you think you will sleep better in cities that ban state legal stands,
Be careful what you wish for cities that ban fireworks stands are often worse in noise from those high powered contraband items as another poster mentioned. I guarantee you will not sleep easier in those cities within a month of Fourth of July. If you want to sleep better you better move to some where where your nearest neighbor is miles away.
I'm pretty sure the fireworks that people have been shooting off in my neighborhood are neither safe nor sane. As I understand it, the only type you can buy from commercial firework stands do not include the type that go into the air or sound like a sonic boom. That is what I and my neighbors are experiencing. I have absolutely no problem with the type sold by vendors but, unfortunately, my goofy neighbors don't like that type.

Quote:
As I always said when fire danger index is really high all means of human fire making from bonfires or campfires and even smoking will be restricted already. And in that case even professional fireworks displays would be cancelled. So there is no targeting a specific market or use of fire in this case. Everything gets equal treatment. On the flip side There is no reason for a city thats mostly rock surfaced and under fog or marine layer at nights to ban state approved stands particularly on a wet year.
Ever been camping in the high mountains when the rangers told you "absolutely no fire permitted?" I have. Sort of takes the fun out of camping. It's just not quite the same, trying to make a smore over a camp stove. May as well stay home and fire up the bbq.
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
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Originally Posted by citizensadvocate View Post
Though I don't see any data that shows cities or counties allowing regulated consumer fireworks stands having more fireworks related emergences to those who ban them outright. In fact many dangerous fireworks related incidents happen in juritications that refuse to permit non profit state approved fireworks stands. Some cities like Anaheim lifted its ban last year but there haven't been increased fires or injuries during the first year non profit stand fireworks are sold in the city compared to years before that. Hurray for Santa Ana's city council for rejecting the proposed ban on legal fireworks in Their city last year. This shows not all democrat city councils are those who take every opportunity to meddle. And Santa Ana is a majority Democrat city with a all democrat council makeup.

Cities and counties are just burying their heads in the sand in refusing to accept the fact that those who decide to use fireworks will use fireworks no matter what and it's pretty much unenforcable, though when you given these law abiding non profits that meet rigorous safety standards the boot you just drive the underground market of dangerous fireworks much bigger resulting in a much more dangerous situation all around. Kind of like banning a specific type of gun one by one by do gooders. While I don't support personal gun ownership I know that this goes against common sense and won't improve anything.

Fireworks approved by the people's republic "nanny state of CA" are much safer than BBQs, bonfires, lighters, burning tobacco products, stoves, and even that burning marshmallow in the campfire. They are not sells the ones ie m80s on the streets your neighbors may set off that produce super loud bangs that set off car alarms and possibly blowing off unluckybody parts, launch up hundreds of feet in the air or sideways, or shoot fire 50 feet high off street level. No municipal government have the power to legalize those even if they wantd ti.The sparklers temperature argument is very weak as the tip of a match not to mention a lighter burns up to 2000 degrees during ignition. A tip of cigarette butt burns hotter than sparkler. So does most other things involving fire we may use during the holiday. Maybe we ought to ban the sales of all these items too?

These bans are kind of like how the state and many cities within wrote pages of bureaucracy aka sb270 or it's local equivalent on a something that only account for 0.4% of the waste stream but greatly help control the other 99.6%.

Obviously if fire danger is high all other fire making activities would be curtailed as well there would be no need for a specific ban on non profits trying to raise funds. Surprisingly cities near dry hillsides in the state are more likely to permit fireworks stands than cities close to the coast with no dry grass and constant high humidity due to the marine layer.
Why do you care? What's your angle here?

As far as sleeping well, heck, even where they're not legal, they went off all night, keeping me up. They toned down a bit whenever sirens were heard, then started up again.

I just sent up a prayer for all the cops and EMTs and hospital staff dealing with injured idiots, and for kids who were injured because their parents were idiots.

It's still all about blowing stuff up, which unfortunately, often results in the inclusion of flesh and bone, and the burning of land and property.

Using fireworks is not some noble endeavor. The OP must be in the business, is all I can figure.
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