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I'm doing just fine, thanks for asking. I'm currently working at a debt shop doing bridge and construction financing. And yes, making fun of you is exceptionally entertaining. Thanks for continuing to respond after getting beaten down over and over. A normal person would have known when to quit.
Sorry, but I'm going with my university on this one. Engineering, Architecture, Business, & Visual Arts were each separate from the school of Arts & Sciences. If you ask someone if Engineering is a "Liberal Arts" major, the standard answer would be no. That's just the way it is. You can argue til you're blue in the face, but we're going to just have to disagree on this.
You've missed my point - it's a philosophy of education, rather than just a field of study, as what you're trying to narrowly define.
And yes, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
Sorry, but I'm going with my university on this one. Engineering, Architecture, Business, & Visual Arts were each separate from the school of Arts & Sciences. If you ask someone if Engineering is a "Liberal Arts" major, the standard answer would be no. That's just the way it is. You can argue til you're blue in the face, but we're going to just have to disagree on this.
I believe silverkris was making the point that at some liberal arts colleges, like Swarthmore, it is possible to major in engineering.
One of the ways liberal arts colleges usually differ from a university is that they don't generally have separate "colleges" within the institution. Then again, not all universities do either.
And, the "liberal arts" are a component of education at nearly ALL institutions of higher education. I'd put money on saying that at your university, the students in the school of engineering had to still take a certain amount of "liberal arts" courses (i.e. literature, social sciences, other sciences, foreign language, etc.)
At the U.S. Naval Academy, students also need to take a certain number of liberal arts courses, regardless of their major -- military officers need broad thinking skills too. And, regardless of how many students actually major in engineering, the Naval Academy offers liberal arts majors as well. But, since their primary purpose is preparing military officers, I would not call it a liberal arts college OR an engineering college. I'd call it a specialized institution focusing on preparing military officers.
But we're really picking at straws here. Hopefully, we can agree that it is entirely possible to get a great education at many different types of "colleges" -- be they a liberal arts college, a private university, a public university, or a military academy.
Haha, they're trying to compare libarts foo-foo with engineering degrees...oh yeah. Good luck ever completing engineering program at a decent school, "liberal artists"....good luck to even being able to get through the first year.
Regarding how "vocational" the 4-year engineering degree is:
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To use the PE seal, engineers must complete several steps to ensure their competency.
Earn a four-year degree in engineering from an accredited engineering program
Pass the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) exam
Complete four years of progressive engineering experience under a PE
Pass the Principles and Practice of Engineering (PE) exam
What makes a PE different from an engineer?
Only a licensed engineer may prepare, sign and seal, and submit engineering plans and drawings to a public authority for approval, or seal engineering work for public and private clients.
PEs shoulder the responsibility for not only their work, but also for the lives affected by that work and must hold themselves to high ethical standards of practice.
Licensure for a consulting engineer or a private practitioner is not something that is merely desirable; it is a legal requirement for those who are in responsible charge of work, be they principals or employees.
Licensure for engineers in government has become increasingly significant. In many federal, state, and municipal agencies, certain governmental engineering positions, particularly those considered higher level and responsible positions, must be filled by licensed professional engineers.
Many states require that individuals teaching engineering must also be licensed. Exemptions to state laws are under attack, and in the future, those in education, as well as industry and government, may need to be licensed to practice.
I believe silverkris was making the point that at some liberal arts colleges, like Swarthmore, it is possible to major in engineering.
One of the ways liberal arts colleges usually differ from a university is that they don't generally have separate "colleges" within the institution. Then again, not all universities do either.
And, the "liberal arts" are a component of education at nearly ALL institutions of higher education. I'd put money on saying that at your university, the students in the school of engineering had to still take a certain amount of "liberal arts" courses (i.e. literature, social sciences, other sciences, foreign language, etc.)
At the U.S. Naval Academy, students also need to take a certain number of liberal arts courses, regardless of their major -- military officers need broad thinking skills too. And, regardless of how many students actually major in engineering, the Naval Academy offers liberal arts majors as well. But, since their primary purpose is preparing military officers, I would not call it a liberal arts college OR an engineering college. I'd call it a specialized institution focusing on preparing military officers.
But we're really picking at straws here. Hopefully, we can agree that it is entirely possible to get a great education at many different types of "colleges" -- be they a liberal arts college, a private university, a public university, or a military academy.
Yes if I could put it in any category, I would call it a Military Academy.
Undergraduate engineering degrees are very much vocational tracks (luckily, should be more vocational and should do away with useless general ed classes).
The reason many with engineering degrees don't go ahead to develop career in these professions: competition, in particularly from H1B visas, and the general state of economy. One can go from engineering to pretty much anything else, but one can't go from lib arts degree to take PE exam, sorry. With lib arts degree one can't even do what 2-year engineering tech grads do. Every employer wants a very specific degree now, it ain't the 90s anymore
Uh no, engineering shouldn't just be a vocational track. General Ed classes are not "useless". If you can't write well, express your ideas well, and collaborate with others, your narrowly-based technical knowledge won't help you in the workplace. Nor will you understand the world well in context. There's a reason colleges and universities have breadth requirements for degrees.
There's a difference between a technician and an engineer - the technicians are the doers, while the engineers are the problem solvers who can look at the whole picture.
The PE is for a very specialized field or area. I know a lot of people with engineering degrees who don't go for that unless their field or profession requires that due to the time required for it. You'll find a lot more civil engineers who do that because it's directly related to what they're doing. You probably won't find many in the software field or semiconductor field with a PE.
Licensure is required in many professions. You get a teaching credential if you want to teach in the classroom. Or if you want to be a CPA, you need to be licensed and get the number of professional hours to qualify for it. Law and medicine, of course. No different really.
Last edited by silverkris; 07-28-2017 at 07:47 AM..
I believe silverkris was making the point that at some liberal arts colleges, like Swarthmore, it is possible to major in engineering.
One of the ways liberal arts colleges usually differ from a university is that they don't generally have separate "colleges" within the institution. Then again, not all universities do either.
And, the "liberal arts" are a component of education at nearly ALL institutions of higher education. I'd put money on saying that at your university, the students in the school of engineering had to still take a certain amount of "liberal arts" courses (i.e. literature, social sciences, other sciences, foreign language, etc.)
At the U.S. Naval Academy, students also need to take a certain number of liberal arts courses, regardless of their major -- military officers need broad thinking skills too. And, regardless of how many students actually major in engineering, the Naval Academy offers liberal arts majors as well. But, since their primary purpose is preparing military officers, I would not call it a liberal arts college OR an engineering college. I'd call it a specialized institution focusing on preparing military officers.
But we're really picking at straws here. Hopefully, we can agree that it is entirely possible to get a great education at many different types of "colleges" -- be they a liberal arts college, a private university, a public university, or a military academy.
Look folks: there are exceptions to every rule. Let's move on before this disintegrates into another shouting match.
So, how about we pull this discussion back to the original question -- saving in California.
Please do not reply if you do not currently reside in California.
According to the Prosperity Now study cited in the original post, many people who live in California do not save at all.
I'm curious:
How many Californians reading this do put at least a little money into some form of savings over the course of a year?
Include: personal savings, retirement accounts, college accounts for your kids, and any other form of savings accounts you may contribute to over the course of a year.
For right now, don't explain why you do or do not save. Let's just see what the savings rate is among the posters on this thread who currently live in California. And, then perhaps, we can delve further.
Obviously, this won't be a scientific poll, but it might be an interesting follow up discussion and bring us back to the topic of the thread.
Again, non-California residents, please hold back from replying for now. After all of the actual California residents reply, we'll give you a chance to chime in with your experiences living elsewhere.
Now to get back to the topic -
I've always put away money (the max) in my rollover IRA when I didn't have a 401K. When I had a 401K, I usually put away at least 8-10% of my paycheck. My wife also uses her 401K benefits as well.
We don't have debt -we've always paid cash for our cars, and have paid off our house early (so we are insulated a bit from the crazy residential market in Silicon Valley). This has helped us amass a nest egg.
So I'd say we save at least 20-25% of our annual income now also considering investment accounts, regular bank accounts as well as the 401Ks.
Last edited by silverkris; 07-28-2017 at 08:22 AM..
Look folks: there are exceptions to every rule. Let's move on before this disintegrates into another shouting match.
So, how about we pull this discussion back to the original question -- saving in California.
Please do not reply if you do not currently reside in California.
According to the Prosperity Now study cited in the original post, many people who live in California do not save at all.
I'm curious:
How many Californians reading this do put at least a little money into some form of savings over the course of a year?
Include: personal savings, retirement accounts, college accounts for your kids, and any other form of savings accounts you may contribute to over the course of a year.
For right now, don't explain why you do or do not save. Let's just see what the savings rate is among the posters on this thread who currently live in California. And, then perhaps, we can delve further.
Obviously, this won't be a scientific poll, but it might be an interesting follow up discussion and bring us back to the topic of the thread.
Again, non-California residents, please hold back from replying for now. After all of the actual California residents reply, we'll give you a chance to chime in with your experiences living elsewhere.
My husband and I are retired, we are lucky and both of us receive pensions and SS, we save about 25% of our net just in case some future congress decides to blow up SS or medicare
I have very frugal family members and then I have this cousin that saves nothing... spends all with a zest for life... would like nothing more than to die leaving hefty Visa and Mastercard balances.
He has always been single, travels the world, gets strange jobs with oversea assignments.
Only saying this because I truly know people that see savings as a waste of what could be.
Seem to know more when I worked a year in Austria... lots of my co-workers lived to vacation and/or spend money on their homes... often spending it all because they didn't worry about getting sick, paying high property taxes and regular workers have no requirement to file tax returns as it is all handled through employment... in other words the net money they receive from working is all theirs.
I can't judge others... who is to say the person that saved every penny possible over a lifetime had the better life than the person that spent every penny and more and leaves nothing behind... maybe viable for a household of one?
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