A faint ray of hope for California (casino, wages)

[RuggedAlpha]

Originally Posted by robertbrianbush

So your employer wouldn't ********* and its other employers even more without the union? my experience us that most workers who downplay unions don't have a good grasp of victories won
by the labor unions or they somehow think that is irrelevant.

Don't get me wrong. I think there are some good unions. My wife has an excellent union & they really go to bat for their members.

I'm not downplaying my union. I would pay my dues if I saw some benefit. Seriously though, it's just a waste of money.

It's only $30 per month, but with that money I can buy a formula for my 9 month old son who is quite the eater, instead of lining the pockets of our "representatives."

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas

I don't even understand why they need a union. they have their agents, lawyers, accountants representing them in their contracts already and they still need a union?

Good point.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

Unions are like insurance. No one wants to pay for them until they need them.

That would be a valid point if public state unions were paying for themselves.

But they don't do they? Or else CalPERs wouldn't be unloading their long term liabilities onto the state's taxpayers.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas

maybe yours but not the unions of the police, fire, prisons and sheriffs


don't know how they reconcile it but the conservatives hate the public unions but they love the above employees which incidentally have the most powerful unions in CA with the most benefits

It isn't just the conservatives on this one, but the Democrats as well. Much of it is union power. But part of it is also because the public generally puts public safety at the highest priority, so everything else gets cut before public safety does in bad times.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by robertbrianbush

So your employer wouldn't ********* and its other employers even more without the union? my experience us that most workers who downplay unions don't have a good grasp of victories won
by the labor unions or they somehow think that is irrelevant.

I'm not very pro-union and I'll tell you why.

I've seen unions shoot themselves (and younger employees) in the foot. Our union, and many others in CA, pushed for pension benefit increases back in 2000 that they had to know were unaffordable. I say this because they KNEW a large wave of Baby Boomers were about to retire in a decade or less and they knew--or certainly should have known--pension costs were going to go up even in the best of scenarios.

Of course, we all know what happened...the stock market essentially went nowhere for the decade 2000-2009. Our pay was cut 12% in 2011 and it took 6 years for our pay to begin to exceed what it was in 2011. Of course, now we pay over 15% of our pay toward the pension (up from less than 5% in the late 1990s). Pension benefits were cut significantly for new employees. And my employer is paying a crap ton of money on its end to keep the pension fund solvent (something like an additional 100% of salary...no that isn't a typo or an exaggeration). It will be at least another decade before the pension is well funded, and that's assuming we don't have another stock market crash in the meantime.

If the unions had just left well enough alone and not pushed for cushier pensions, such drastic measures I listed above would not have been needed.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by rodentraiser

Unions are like insurance. No one wants to pay for them until they need them.

There is some truth to that.

But unions also push for unrealistic pay and benefit packages, give the greatest protection to the worst employees, and then blame anyone and everyone else when the stuff they push for cannot be sustained (as per my previous post). It usually doesn't start out this way, but the sense of entitlement builds over time.

The people who need to hear this the most won't listen, but maybe a few will: Your best insurance will always be saving and investing your own d*mn money--and not just a skimpy amount. Yet even with above market wages and benefits, most people still don't save much.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

There is some truth to that.

But unions also push for unrealistic pay and benefit packages, give the greatest protection to the worst employees, and then blame anyone and everyone else when the stuff they push for cannot be sustained (as per my previous post). It usually doesn't start out this way, but the sense of entitlement builds over time.

The people who need to hear this the most won't listen, but maybe a few will: Your best insurance will always be saving and investing your own d*mn money--and not just a skimpy amount. Yet even with above market wages and benefits, most people still don't save much.

Unions used to be about safety and working hours, working conditions and many things the Govt was ignoring. Now laws take care of all that and no real need for unions exist except to grab more and more money and and keep lousy workers employed when they should be fired and ...line the pockets of Union Leaders and politicians.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

If the unions had just left well enough alone and not pushed for cushier pensions, such drastic measures I listed above would not have been needed.

Why wouldn't they?

They are negotiating in their best interest given the conditions set upon them. Jerry Brown gave them a blank check to California taxpayer money. You think they would exercise financial restraint?

I didn't vote for Trump but seeing the effect he's having on wide social and fiscal issues like this, I won't make that mistake in 2020.

[payutenyodagimas]

I once visited DC and there is this guy who operates the elevator at the Supreme Court.


you need someone to operate an elevator in the 21st century?


I'm guessing he is a member of a government unions and that is just one instance how the unions fail the taxpayers.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas

I once visited DC and there is this guy who operates the elevator at the Supreme Court.


you need someone to operate an elevator in the 21st century?


I'm guessing he is a member of a government unions and that is just one instance how the unions fail the taxpayers.

He probably has 30 service years banked, and got 4 COLA increases in the past 5 years.