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Old 04-16-2018, 10:12 AM
 
6,079 posts, read 3,453,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
What’s a “regressive”? Is it a term you made up?

Sounds like you’re a person who opposes conservation and wants to dam every watershed so you can have a big lawn and a swimming pool. This from a person who flushes my toilet every time!
Regressives are guys like Jerry Brown who refused to spend money on improving California's water infrastructure and instead spent it on pork projects like the high speed rail project from Fresno to Madera, and illegal alien entitlement programs.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:02 PM
 
18,177 posts, read 12,255,570 times
Reputation: 9214
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Apparently they use the same amount of water. The pool industry would like you to think that pools use less.

Some water conservation experts question the pool industry’s math and say, at best, residential pools and lawns use roughly the same amount of water after an initial fill. There are 1.18 million residential pools in California, according to Metrostudy, which tracks housing information....

https://www.pe.com/2015/06/03/drough...turf-or-pools/

And it would have to be a newly constructed swimming pool to use less water than a lawn.

According to the California Pool & Spa Association, the average pool requires less water than grass. The association’s website explained it this way: “A newly completed residential swimming pool will demand less water during the first year compared to a lawn — about 26,250 gallons versus 30,000 gallons for the same area of grass.”

And after the first year, then what? As a former pool owner (of a fairly new pool), I recall having to fill ours frequently, especially in the warmer months.

In Ongoing Drought, More Long Beach Homeowners Opt For Swimming Pool Removal | News | gazettes.com
OK, then people with pools and lawns must get rid of them and CA can look like Arizona or NV.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
9,280 posts, read 10,194,288 times
Reputation: 15702
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
Regressives are guys like Jerry Brown who refused to spend money on improving California's water infrastructure and instead spent it on pork projects like the high speed rail project from Fresno to Madera, and illegal alien entitlement programs.
You do realize that illegals have not been eligible for welfare in over 20 years. But I agree about the high speed rail boondoggle.
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:33 PM
 
18,177 posts, read 12,255,570 times
Reputation: 9214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
You do realize that illegals have not been eligible for welfare in over 20 years. But I agree about the high speed rail boondoggle.
Their birther babies are, so the illegal parents get it.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:54 PM
 
2,876 posts, read 4,138,153 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
Luvsocal,

Have you thought about using the water that Orange County produces to sustain its 3 million plus people instead of stealing it from other places where it naturally occurs and naturally flows. Oh, thats right, you don't have any fresh water that naturally occurs there because you destroyed all your watersheds to build suburbs and freeways.

You have all the water you could possible need from Seal Beach to San Clemente off the Orange County Coast -- start building desalinization plants, and start producing your own fresh water instead of stealing from other places for which it naturally exists.
Chim,

I agree 100 percent about building desalinization plants, except not only in SoCal but all over California, because they work. And when the Bay Area adds millions more people, where will they get their water from if not from some new sources that nobody is planning for?

In addition, what nobody has mentioned, is how well water recycling works in other parts of the world but hasn't yet been implemented here. Israel is a mostly dry place (with some Mediterranean climate and some desert, just like CA), and 80 percent of their water is recycled. Especially for landscape use, we could actually have green lawns AND reduce overall water usage this way.

Where I don't really agree with you is the idea (which is popular among many) that certain areas are 'stealing' water from places where it 'naturally exists.' If we were draining natural lakes or rivers, then I would agree that this is really bad for the environment, but the water that goes to our drinking supplies doesn't come from Tahoe or the Russian River, for example, but from man-made reservoirs that exist separately to the naturally occurring ecosystems. Consider that 85 percent of the water supply of San Francisco and San Mateo counties comes from Hetch Hetchy reservoir near Yosemite, built almost 100 years ago to collect the melting snowpack for the growing population. The water from that reservoir has to travel 167 miles to San Francisco, so is SF 'stealing' that water? I think a statewide reservoir system is vital, and it makes sense to put those reservoirs in remote areas with maximum snowmelt and/or rainfall, even if they are far from population centers, and then that water gets distributed all over the place. Think about the 7.5 mil people in the Bay Area, none of whom rely on groundwater but mostly on reservoirs. All the big NorCal reservoirs like Folsom, Oroville, Shasta -- all are man-made reservoirs built for the sole purpose of collecting water to get the state through the annual summer dry season. And ALL Californians have that dry season and need outside water.

I don't know if OC has a lot of reservoirs, but San Diego has quite a few, and they supply about 25 percent of our water needs. Desal provides 8 percent, and Oroville imports provide about 28 or 29 percent. The rest comes from the Colorado River, which could be considered more of a tax on the natural environment. But diversification of water sources is key.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 8,671,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
Luvsocal,

Have you thought about using the water that Orange County produces to sustain its 3 million plus people instead of stealing it from other places where it naturally occurs and naturally flows. Oh, thats right, you don't have any fresh water that naturally occurs there because you destroyed all your watersheds to build suburbs and freeways.

You have all the water you could possible need from Seal Beach to San Clemente off the Orange County Coast -- start building desalinization plants, and start producing your own fresh water instead of stealing from other places for which it naturally exists.
Stealing water is a ridiculous concept as it relates to water use at the state level. Until such time as NorCal remained joined at the hip with SoCal, there is no stealing, but rather, sharing in the resources available in the state.

I agree with building desalinization plants. However, water sources need to vary with desal being but one back-up source. OC also reuses water via filtration. More is needed. That is where the state can come in and push for, and incentivize these projects in a number of ways. That is where that wasted train money could and should be diverted to.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Sacramento, Placerville
2,511 posts, read 5,460,718 times
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You aren't hearing much about the below normal rainfall in Southern California because the reservoirs are above average storage for this time of the year.

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/products/rescond.pdf
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:47 PM
 
5,365 posts, read 5,723,803 times
Reputation: 2630
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstieber View Post
Consider that 85 percent of the water supply of San Francisco and San Mateo counties comes from Hetch Hetchy reservoir near Yosemite, built almost 100 years ago to collect the melting snowpack for the growing population. The water from that reservoir has to travel 167 miles to San Francisco, so is SF 'stealing' that water?
Yes, it is stealing, absolutely. You do know that Hetch Hetchy was as beautiful as Yosemite Valley, Can you imagine flooding Yosemite Valley today and destroying that natural habitat so the Bay Area can grow even bigger. No of course not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tstieber View Post
I think a statewide reservoir system is vital, and it makes sense to put those reservoirs in remote areas with maximum snowmelt and/or rainfall, even if they are far from population centers, and then that water gets distributed all over the place. Think about the 7.5 mil people in the Bay Area, none of whom rely on groundwater but mostly on reservoirs. All the big NorCal reservoirs like Folsom, Oroville, Shasta -- all are man-made reservoirs built for the sole purpose of collecting water to get the state through the annual summer dry season. And ALL Californians have that dry season and need outside water.
Unnatural reservoirs have environmental consequences to the natural environment and habitats. You don't live in these environments so it easy for you not to care about them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tstieber View Post
Oroville imports provide about 28 or 29 percent. The rest comes from the Colorado River, which could be considered more of a tax on the natural environment.
Sorry, This needs to stop. San Diego and Orange County should focus on providing their own water from their own natural resources quit STEALING it from where it naturally occurs and flows.

Last edited by Chimérique; 04-16-2018 at 08:56 PM..
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:56 PM
 
5,365 posts, read 5,723,803 times
Reputation: 2630
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
Stealing water is a ridiculous concept as it relates to water use at the state level. Until such time as NorCal remained joined at the hip with SoCal, there is no stealing, but rather, sharing in the resources available in the state.

I agree with building desalinization plants. However, water sources need to vary with desal being but one back-up source. OC also reuses water via filtration. More is needed. That is where the state can come in and push for, and incentivize these projects in a number of ways. That is where that wasted train money could and should be diverted to.
I believe you should be able to sustain yourself with your own natural resources before you TAKE/STEAL it from another another location. Your focus should be on using your own resources like your "precious" coast and ocean. Don't steal resources from another location. Don't destroy our "precious" environments.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:45 PM
 
2,876 posts, read 4,138,153 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
Yes, it is stealing, absolutely. You do know that Hetch Hetchy was as beautiful as Yosemite Valley, Can you imagine flooding Yosemite Valley today and destroying that natural habitat so the Bay Area can grow even bigger. No of course not.

Unnatural reservoirs have environmental consequences to the natural environment and habitats. You don't live in these environments so it easy for you not to care about them.

Sorry, This needs to stop. San Diego and Orange County should focus on providing their own water from their own natural resources quit STEALING it from where it naturally occurs and flows.
I do understand your point about reservoirs having an impact on the habitat they displace. But it's not just San Diego and OC using reservoir water. That's why I brought up Hetch Hetchy and the Bay Area. Lake Oroville, Lake Shasta, Folsom Lake, and most of the others are man-made as well. Every major population center in the state relies on reservoirs to store water for the dry season, because in a summer dry climate, we couldn't make it through the Summers without stored water. Without a substantial Statewide network of reservoirs and aqueducts, our population literally could not survive. Desalinization plants could certainly help, as could recycling, but what I'm not understanding about your argument, and perhaps you could clarify, is why you singled out Southern California when all of California relies on Reservoir water for a year-round Supply. Also, would you propose draining all of California's reservoirs and replacing them with desalinization plants? We would need a lot of desalinization plants to make up the difference. realistically, the state is never going to give up Reservoirs when water is so badly needed.

I do want to bring up one other point about water sources and usage in San Diego specifically. I have no idea how Orange County uses their water, but in San Diego, during the droughts of the early 1990s, the water districts planned ahead for future droughts by diversifying water sources and supplies, so that during the last drought, our reservoirs were actually full when the rest of the state was suffering and hadn't planned ahead. San Diego was a model for forward-thinking water planning that the rest of the state could Learn from. Also, living in San Diego versus visiting family in the Inland East Bay, it's amazing to me how many people in San Diego are replacing thirsty Landscapes with drought tolerant ones, while I still see people tearing up drought tolerant Landscapes and putting in thirsty ones in NorCal. It's like Northern Californians want to pretend to have all the water in the world when they don't. There may be more rain during the winter, but without reservoirs, it would just run off, and we all need water during the Summers. So we're all in the same boat and have the same responsibilities for water conservation across the state. I definitely think more blame should fall on Northern California Water Districts than districts like San Diego, which are actually proactive in conservation and Supply management, While most of NorCal puts their head in the sand and does nothing. How many desalination plants are even being built in Northern California?

Water in a Mediterranean climate is always a tricky business, and there is no single or easy solution. It has to be a complex and multifaceted approach.

what would be your overall idea for better Water Management? Just get rid of all the reservoirs and replace with desalinization plants? Or any other ideas?
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