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Old 04-17-2018, 07:08 AM
 
5,376 posts, read 5,766,630 times
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Ttsieber, (When I use the pronoun, "you" don't personalize it, I don't really mean, you, personally)

It sounds like you've been reading too much from the Propaganda Water Greedy Handlers of Southern California Machine. Perhaps if you lived up here you might have a different perspective.

1. San Diego provides only 8% of their own fresh water, they steal the rest from NorCal and Other States which destroys the habitats of other locations so you can live beyond your means. This is morally and fiscally wrong.

2. NorCal meters water just like SoCal and NorCal pays a hefty price so y'all can steal our water and live beyond your means.

3. Building unnatural reservoirs all over the state has HUGE environmental consequences that you don't care about. If NorCal stole precious resources from Orange County or San Diego County and it had a major impact on destroying your natural habitat you bet y'all would be upset about it.

4. NorCal pays a huge cost so you all can steal our water, and we deal with the disadvantages of having our rivers damned so you all can steal our water. One of those disadvantages is Flood. We have to deal with all of those Dams breaking and destroying our cities, towns, and natural habitats for centuries....just so you all can live beyond your means; its time you all start using your own natural resources to sustain yourselves.

5. When you all start building damns and destroying your natural habitats and start sending water our way then perhaps things will be fair but they aren't. "It never rains in Southern California". You take/steal from us and don't give us anything in return.

6. SoCal steals water from Oroville which destroys the Feather River Watershed, and you steal water from the Cascades, Mt. Shasta which destroys the Sacramento River watershed. Folsom supplies not only Sacramento for which it NATURALLY flows but the East Bay(for which it does NOT naturally flow) at a huge cost to the Watershed, and Sacramento has to deal with the cost of that dam breaking one day just so we can feed thirsty mouths in Berkeley and Oakland.

7. Sacramento averages 2 to 3 times the natural rainfall of San Diego yet NorCal still meters their water and plants native and drought tolerant yards and deals with low-flow faucets so you all can live beyond your means.

8. Use your own water and natural resources before you take/steal even more from us.

9. There is only one desalinization plant in SoCal which provides like .0005 percent of the water you all steal from other places. If you want more water, then use the water you already have, build more desalinization plants.

10. You say you want diversity in water supplies then start building desalinization plants - learn from Israel, and quit damning our rivers and diverting the water that does not naturally flow to you.

11. You already take way way more than your share at our expense, and at a cost that could cost us our lives and livelihoods, and forever destroy California.

12. SF already destroyed the equivalent of Yosemite Valley (Hetch Hetchy) let us NOT destroy more of California.

Last edited by Chimérique; 04-17-2018 at 07:46 AM..
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:34 AM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,335,606 times
Reputation: 9220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
Ttsieber, (When I use the pronoun, "you" don't personalize it, I don't really mean, you, personally)

It sounds like you've been reading too much from the Propaganda Water Greedy Handlers of Southern California Machine. Perhaps if you lived up here you might have a different perspective.

1. San Diego provides only 8% of their own fresh water, they steal the rest from NorCal and Other States which destroys the habitats of other locations so you can live beyond your means. This is morally and fiscally wrong.

2. NorCal meters water just like SoCal and NorCal pays a hefty price so y'all can steal our water and live beyond your means.

3. Building unnatural reservoirs all over the state has HUGE environmental consequences that you don't care about. If NorCal stole precious resources from Orange County or San Diego County and it had a major impact on destroying your natural habitat you bet y'all would be upset about it.

4. NorCal pays a huge cost so you all can steal our water, and we deal with the disadvantages of having our rivers damned so you all can steal our water. One of those disadvantages is Flood. We have to deal with all of those Dams breaking and destroying our cities, towns, and natural habitats for centuries....just so you all can live beyond your means; its time you all start using your own natural resources to sustain yourselves.

5. When you all start building damns and destroying your natural habitats and start sending water our way then perhaps things will be fair but they aren't. "It never rains in Southern California". You take/steal from us and don't give us anything in return.

6. SoCal steals water from Oroville which destroys the Feather River Watershed, and you steal water from the Cascades, Mt. Shasta which destroys the Sacramento River watershed. Folsom supplies not only Sacramento for which it NATURALLY flows but the East Bay(for which it does NOT naturally flow) at a huge cost to the Watershed, and Sacramento has to deal with the cost of that dam breaking one day just so we can feed thirsty mouths in Berkeley and Oakland.

7. Sacramento averages 2 to 3 times the natural rainfall of San Diego yet NorCal still meters their water and plants native and drought tolerant yards and deals with low-flow faucets so you all can live beyond your means.

8. Use your own water and natural resources before you take/steal even more from us.

9. There is only one desalinization plant in SoCal which provides like .0005 percent of the water you all steal from other places. If you want more water, then use the water you already have, build more desalinization plants.

10. You say you want diversity in water supplies then start building desalinization plants - learn from Israel, and quit damning our rivers and diverting the water that does not naturally flow to you.

11. You already take way way more than your share at our expense, and at a cost that could cost us our lives and livelihoods, and forever destroy California.

12. SF already destroyed the equivalent of Yosemite Valley (Hetch Hetchy) let us NOT destroy more of California.
UH CA is a single State so North and South are just geographical divides and the water belongs to...... CA and its residents. No one is stealing from anyone else.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:00 AM
 
5,376 posts, read 5,766,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
UH CA is a single State so North and South are just geographical divides and the water belongs to...... CA and its residents. No one is stealing from anyone else.
Fine, then SoCal can start providing their share of water needs by building desalizaton plants and Send the water to NorCal.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
9,301 posts, read 10,268,579 times
Reputation: 15792
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
UH CA is a single State so North and South are just geographical divides and the water belongs to...... CA and its residents. No one is stealing from anyone else.
Google the history of the Ownes Valley and Mono Lake. You then will see the term “stealing” in its proper context.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:33 AM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,335,606 times
Reputation: 9220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
Fine, then SoCal can start providing their share of water needs by building desalizaton plants and Send the water to NorCal.
OK, and then the people in NorCal who come to the beaches in SoCal for better weather, Disneyland and other SoCal goodies and can bring water with them.

It is one State the water in effect (not really due to old treaties) belongs to all residents regardless of where they live.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:37 AM
 
6,079 posts, read 3,486,576 times
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The only "thieves" are illegal aliens who are using resources that are publicly funded and getting paid under the table without taxation.

Water rights, land rights, etc are all part of the social contract of being a United States Citizen.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:55 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
16,317 posts, read 27,106,803 times
Reputation: 10071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
I believe you should be able to sustain yourself with your own natural resources before you TAKE/STEAL it from another another location. Your focus should be on using your own resources like your "precious" coast and ocean. Don't steal resources from another location. Don't destroy our "precious" environments.
Well then start drilling for oil/natural gas around Sacramento and stop "stealing" it from other places.... Stop destroying other places precious environments to supply Sac's oil and natural gas needs.
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:19 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 4,164,763 times
Reputation: 2399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
Fine, then SoCal can start providing their share of water needs by building desalizaton plants and Send the water to NorCal.
As we are one state, and our water resources were planned to accommodate the entire state, neither SoCal nor NorCal 'owes' each other anything. We share all of our state's resources. Is SoCal 'stealing' NorCal's political resources because the state capital is in Sacramento? Does a Northern Californian 'steal' SoCal's resources when they use a state park in SoCal? Of course not. Public infrastructure belongs to all. They are not two separate states. And the water in Lake Oroville doesn't 'belong' to NorCal anymore than it 'belongs' to SoCal just because the reservoirs is in NorCal, because either way, the water would have to be transported hundreds of miles to population centers. I can empathize with your philosophical belief that *all* man-made reservoirs are an encroachment on the natural landscape, and that all reservoir water could be seen as 'stealing' from Mother Nature, but in order to be consistent, that argument has to apply to all Californians and not just Southern Californians. Northern Californians steal the same water, only they don't have to travel quite as far to steal it. So if we're all stealing from Mother Nature, then none of us has the right to it. (It's not my personal philosophy, but I can appreciate the sentiment).

If you do think that reservoirs are intrinsically an encroachment on nature, then do you think California should not have any reservoirs at all? That would imply that you support humans populating only parts of the world that have evenly distributed rainfall throughout the year.
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:33 AM
 
2,886 posts, read 4,164,763 times
Reputation: 2399
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Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Well then start drilling for oil/natural gas around Sacramento and stop "stealing" it from other places.... Stop destroying other places precious environments to supply Sac's oil and natural gas needs.
Bingo! No state and no country has all the natural resources you could ever need, water or otherwise, so we move them from where they are abundant to places where they aren't. And when you think about it, most of CA's population centers, from Silicon Valley to Sacramento to Fresno to LA, OC, and SD, are not in high annual rainfall areas, so we set it up to create reservoirs where they will collect and distribute to the masses. Our population has far exceeded the days where we could all have a deep well or take water from a seasonal creek. Water redistribution is the only way ANY of us could live in this state.

I guess to be consistent, Chimerique musn't drive a car, since we are an oil-poor state and don't provide the raw materials for gasoline, and instead we're stealing imported oil from other places. Of course, we do have refineries in the Bay Area, so maybe if you can get your gas right at the refinery, it's okay. ;-)

I also forgot about produce. Only eat what is grown in your immediate area. Mexican avocados from the supermarket, for example, are off limits. It's stealing resources. Grow your own.
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:54 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
86,884 posts, read 80,147,724 times
Reputation: 89826
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
UH CA is a single State so North and South are just geographical divides and the water belongs to...... CA and its residents. No one is stealing from anyone else.
Oh? Have you ever seen footage of what the Owens Valley looked like, before LA developers stole the water, and locked up the right-of-way for a pipeline? PBS has a very good documentary of the history of it.
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