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Old 04-17-2018, 12:51 PM
 
2,874 posts, read 4,128,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Oh? Have you ever seen footage of what the Owens Valley looked like, before LA developers stole the water, and locked up the right-of-way for a pipeline? PBS has a very good documentary of the history of it.
That was a terrible atrocity, but it was 100 years ago, and we've all learned from that. We don't permit that sort of pillage of natural resources anymore, which is precisely why we now have reservoirs instead of just sucking the water right out of natural lakes or rivers. We now collect runoff that would otherwise go into the ocean or the ground, and I think that's the only responsible way to do it.
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:08 PM
 
18,177 posts, read 12,225,963 times
Reputation: 9214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Oh? Have you ever seen footage of what the Owens Valley looked like, before LA developers stole the water, and locked up the right-of-way for a pipeline? PBS has a very good documentary of the history of it.
Yes I am aware of that, but it has nothing to do with North VS South. The State Gov't permitted that and it is located in the ........ North.
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Old 04-17-2018, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,528 posts, read 5,550,215 times
Reputation: 7392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
You have all the water you could possible need from Seal Beach to San Clemente off the Orange County Coast -- start building desalinization plants, and start producing your own fresh water instead of stealing from other places for which it naturally exists.
What do you suggest happens with all the salt/brine produced?
Quote:
Creating pure water from saltwater comensata price, however, and the biggest cost is in terms of energy. Twenty years ago plants used between 5kWh and 10kWh of energy to create one cubic metre (m3) of drinking water – roughly equivalent to the energy used by five to 10 washing machine cycles. Modern plants can do the same with only 2kWh, but even so most of the power demand for desalination is met through the use of fossil fuels.

The second cost is one of pollution. Removal of pure water from a salty source creates a concentrated waste stream called brine. Up to twice as salty as sea water, and often containing process chemicals such as chlorine, anti-scaling and anti-caking agents, this discharge can have a significant effect on marine life.
People don't ever stop to think that as the human population increases the use of water increases. We need to start having discussions on ways to control overpopulation through introducing population planning strategies.
Quote:
Our demand for water grew six fold during the 20th century, and in the UK we use 70 percent more water than we did 40 years ago. Predictions suggest that over the next 20 years our water use will increase by another 40 percent, in the face of depleted aquifers and reduced melt waters as climate change affects the formation of winter ice.
Desalination - pros and cons of a typically thorny issue.
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 8,651,986 times
Reputation: 7928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
What do you suggest happens with all the salt/brine produced?


People don't ever stop to think that as the human population increases the use of water increases. We need to start having discussions on ways to control overpopulation through introducing population planning strategies.


Desalination - pros and cons of a typically thorny issue.
Yes! And while we talk about overpopulation, can we please ALSO DISCUSS STOPPING IMMIGRATION TOO OR AT LEAST LIMITING IT?
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
9,269 posts, read 10,165,685 times
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And then there is the small issue of stealing the water from the Colorado river which SoCal uses for lawns and pools
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 8,651,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
And then there is the small issue of stealing the water from the Colorado river which SoCal uses for lawns and pools
Is Vegas stealing too?
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:04 PM
 
5,365 posts, read 5,709,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tstieber View Post

I guess to be consistent, Chimerique musn't drive a car, since we are an oil-poor state and don't provide the raw materials for gasoline, and instead we're stealing imported oil from other places. Of course, we do have refineries in the Bay Area, so maybe if you can get your gas right at the refinery, it's okay. ;-)

I also forgot about produce. Only eat what is grown in your immediate area. Mexican avocados from the supermarket, for example, are off limits. It's stealing resources. Grow your own.
tstieber,

I expect this thoughtless and arrogant attitude from "you know who in Walnut Creek" but not from you. You are ignoring the problem.

1. Regarding oil and gas, yes we do destroy other natural habitats around our country and across the world -- it doesn't make it right, nor sustainable. And we pay a hefty price for that oil and gas. Still not right. That is why we are using solar energy and electric cars. By the end of the year I will have an electric car which will reduce my "carbon footprint" but more importantly I will be improving the air quality of where I live.

2. Isn't it only fair that you provide at least 50% of the water you use - build desalinization plants and take the water from where you live. Then we can steal the water from you, and we will see how you like it. Seriously, its the arrogance and total disregard that is most disturbing.

3. There is a bigger and much more reliable source of water in Oregon and Washington, perhaps you can take their water instead. You can tax yourself to build the infrastructure so it goes straight to your parched landscape. I wonder if the people in Oregon and Washington would feel the same way I do.

4. We in NorCal meter our water and pay a big cost for it and we really don't have to because we have enough water to sustain ourselves....oh, but we send it to you at the expense of our natural habitats and at the expense of our homes and livelihoods, but it sounds like you don't care about that.

Last edited by Chimérique; 04-17-2018 at 07:32 PM..
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:17 PM
 
5,365 posts, read 5,709,021 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
What do you suggest happens with all the salt/brine produced?


People don't ever stop to think that as the human population increases the use of water increases. We need to start having discussions on ways to control overpopulation through introducing population planning strategies.


Desalination - pros and cons of a typically thorny issue.
Hey Matador, they won't stop with NorCal, the Pacific Northwest, has a huge supply of water and it is much much more RELIEABLE source. After taking our water they will go after yours.

Most of them are arrogant and ignorant when it comes to water. They have no idea where it comes from and they don't care that they destroy other peoples lives when they steal it. The Los Angeles Metro Water District is huge and powerful as they already have destroyed many habitats and steal water from Colorado, Arizona, Nevada and NorCal.

Matador, thank you for the info on desalinization. What gets us upset in NorCal is that SoCal doesn't give a dam about the consequences of their greedy habits. They don't admit that they are living beyond their means that they are putting others peoples lives at risk. They make no attempt at finding other ways of providing water other than to take ours. They are destroying California and they don't care.

Last edited by Chimérique; 04-17-2018 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 8,651,986 times
Reputation: 7928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
tstieber,

I expect this thoughtless and arrogant attitude from "you know who in Walnut Creek" but not from you. You are ignoring the problem.

1. Regarding oil and gas, yes we do destroy other natural habitats around our country and across the world -- it doesn't make it right, nor sustainable. And we pay a hefty price for that oil and gas. Still not right. That is why we are using solar energy and electric cars. By the end of the year I will have an electric car which will reduce my "carbon footprint" but more importantly I will be improving the air quality of where I live.

2. Isn't it only fair that you provide at least 20%, 30%, 40% of the water you use - build desalinization plants and take the water from where you live. Then we can steal the water from you, and we see how you like it. Seriously, its the arrogance and total disregard that is most disturbing.

3. There is a bigger and much more reliable source of water in Oregon and Washington, perhaps you can take their water instead. You can tax yourself to build the infrastructure so it goes straight to your parched landscape. I wonder if the people in Oregon and Washington would feel the same way I do.

4. We in NorCal meter our water and pay a big cost for it and we really don't have to because we have enough water to sustain ourselves....oh, but we send it to you at the expense of our natural habitats and at the expense of our homes and livelihoods, but it sounds like you don't care about that.
Sacramento should stop "stealing" my tax dollars too. I am not dealing in polemics here. I am being serious. I am sick of it.

Relevance of solar panels and electric vehicle? Why the virtue signaling? I have solar panels too and I have a highly water efficient household too after having invested in that problem.

As for your determination that "they" (code word for SoCal) use all of the water, it is true that Los Angeles should never have grown to the size it has. That fact notwithstanding, Sacramento supports the drive to bring ever more people here and we all know it is unsustainable. Sacramento expresses no concern over immigration. Care to explain why that is? Meanwhile, one must endure virtue signaling and lecturing on ever decreasing water consumption as if it is never enough.

Why are you not expressing concern about Los Angeles' growth via immigration? We have few transplants moving to California anymore. I agree with you that we cannot keep taking all the water from NorCal. Population control is a must.
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:04 PM
 
5,365 posts, read 5,709,021 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
Sacramento should stop "stealing" my tax dollars too. I am not dealing in polemics here. I am being serious. I am sick of it.

Relevance of solar panels and electric vehicle? Why the virtue signaling? I have solar panels too and I have a highly water efficient household too after having invested in that problem.

As for your determination that "they" (code word for SoCal) use all of the water, it is true that Los Angeles should never have grown to the size it has. That fact notwithstanding, Sacramento supports the drive to bring ever more people here and we all know it is unsustainable. Sacramento expresses no concern over immigration. Care to explain why that is? Meanwhile, one must endure virtue signaling and lecturing on ever decreasing water consumption as if it is never enough.

Why are you not expressing concern about Los Angeles' growth via immigration? We have few transplants moving to California anymore. I agree with you that we cannot keep taking all the water from NorCal. Population control is a must.
Sacramento doesn't steal your tax dollar YOUR politicians do. Sacramento doesn't support the drive to make LA even bigger, YOUR politicians do that. Sacramento only does what YOUR politicians BULLY us to do.

You seem not to care about the natural habitat of Orange County to let it get the way it is now. It used to be a paradise of Orange Groves and they used their own water to sustain themselves because they lived within their means.

Immigration in LA, way too big of problem for me to tackle, I have opinions but we really don't have free speech anymore, do we. I'll stick to natural resources and the weather.
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