Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Other than the few years I had a Kaiser individual plan, my experience has been the polar opposite of yours, and I spent roughly the same number of years living in California as you have. Re the way you worded the above, it doesn't sound as though you have much, if any, experience dealing with doctors in private practice....which have been plentiful in California over the period of your long life.
Your statement "how doctors get paid in my life in CA" is relatively meaningless. It only speaks to your personal experience.
There is a gap in your understanding of how physicians get paid outside of your own personal experience.
In no particular order:
1. You aren't a Physician (IIRC, you were a residential property manager), let alone a self-employed one, who has the requisite knowledge re what is involved re the profit structure in the practice of a self employed Physician.
2. It sounds as though you resent the money that Physicians make, with no regard to the fact that many Physicians educated in the U.S. complete their education with significant debt. They should be able to earn at a rate where they can at least somewhat comfortably pay that debt off. In a number of other countries where 'government healthcare' is the norm, the med students don't have to pay tuition, etc. Are you unaware that doctors in the U.S. often graduate with debt?.....Or do you not care about their ability to pay that debt off?
3. You have probably a greater vested interest than anyone else who has posted to this thread to see that this bill passes, to help insure that you get the most out of your more limited budget....and the heck with anyone else's perspective or needs (of which paying back loans would be just one).
4. Until your last paragraph, you seemed unaware of concierge medical practices. Even given the last sentence of yours that I quoted, you still seem unaware of concierge medical practices...but I can't tell with much certainty.
5. A number of people put the most emphasis on a particular doctor, not that every cent is covered by insurance. If their insurance covers everything but the co-pay...fine. If the doctor they want to see doesn't take their particular insurance or (increasingly) doesn't take insurance at all...they just pay out of pocket. It doesn't sound as though you have much, or any, interaction with people who pay their medical expenses guided by what I outlined.
6. Given the composition of your post, it's obvious that you are unaware that the person you're replying to (stan4) IS a Physician.
Of course, I'm speaking from personal experience. I am the voice of someone who has lived in this state most of my long life, and I have always been in a large healthcare system, such as Kaiser or Valley Medical Center or in a Blue Cross network, etc. Unless you're wealthy, this is the type of healthcare you're going to be getting coverage from in this state. So, I also believe I speak for the majority. If some wealthy people will lament losing their favorite boutique physician to Texas, so be it. Heck, if they're rich enough to pay out of pocket for treatment, maybe they can afford to fly to Texas to get it.
Personal attacks against me because of my income are irrelevant, and a poor attempt at winning a debate, which is normally only resorted to as a last ditch effort when actual intelligence and reason has already lost.
I don't care if I'm addressing actual physicians. My opinion stands regardless who I'm discussing it with.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I have explained that I started the thread because I thought the topic might be of interest to Californians posting here. They are the people who will have to live with the results.
Apparently my sarcasm did not come through well. My joke about family members mopping floors was to point out that would also save money, which this misguided bill proposes to do. So would cutting out the amenities that hospitals now offer to attract patients. You could also add a law to prevent doctors and hospitals from advertising. That would save money, too. After all, these days your insurance company chooses your doctors and hospital for you. Doctors and hospitals really do not have much competitive advantage.
I don't think you understand what "networks" are. That applies to insurance companies: the panels of doctors that contract to see their patients. Kaiser is the only insurance plan of any size that directly employs its own physicians. The bill is not about what insurance companies agree to pay or what the patient share of costs will be. If the state decides to lower fees below what the insurance companies are already paying, those companies will be happy. They pay the doctors less, but are highly unlikely to lower premiums. Result: higher insurance company profits, patients still paying high premiums, deductibles, and copayments.
H1-B physicians do not want to be paid less than they could make in another state, either. In fact, if there is a scarcity of physicians, they will have to be paid more.
Your only choice might be a Nurse Practitioner. I believe there is a place for NPs, but they should supplement MDs (or DOs), not replace them.
No, the bill applies to every physician in the state, not just those who are employees.
"(6) A physician and surgeon or other professional who is licensed in California to deliver or furnish health care services and who is a member of a health profession in which some professionals bill independently for their services.
(7) A physician organization or medical group.
(8) Any other provider of a health care service that is licensed, certified, or otherwise regulated by the state and that bills separately or independently for that service."
That is every single physician in the state.
You're still being hysterical. We also passed a law here that said grocery stores had to stop giving out free plastic bags, so we could save our landfills from overflowing and hurting the environment. We lived to tell the tale.
We'll live to tell this tale, too.
I'm grateful you're so worried about the state of my state, so far away from your own. Thanks. But, we'll be fine.
Oh, and I usually actually prefer to be seen by a Nurse Practitioner. They are just as capable and are less arrogant, and usually less rushed and better listeners.
You just can't make me worry about this. And I doubt you'll get a majority of CA voters to buy into this hysteria, either. We see it for what it is.
Well, we disagree. I did finally look up a little more info on the proposed law, and it only affects commercial providers. And the pricing would be based on Medicare pricing. If a commercial provider thinks they have a valid reason to charge more, they can take it to the commission.
Our State Attorney General filed suit against Sutter Health for gouging patients. This is a problem that's caused our health care to be more expensive than other states. Something needs to be done.
If some physicians left, some would just come and replace them. That's the thing about California. We don't have to beg people to come here.
For every person who moved away to Texas or Colorado, there was at least one who came to take their place.
And with a market of 39 1/2 million people in this state, these commercial providers aren't going to abandon this state. But, maybe they'll have to accept lower profits. And you can bet they'll figure out how to get as many physicians as they need.
Saying otherwise, is just irrational hysteria that feeds into the agenda of these profit-making machines that are not about actually providing care for patients, but only about their own profits and enormous executive salaries.
Riiiiight.
If you really felt as though it is "irrational hysteria', you wouldn't bother replying to this thread....there would be no need to, as it = something that can't happen.
I still don't get why you are trying to influence CA voters.
You are being deliberately obtuse. I know you can read. Suzy already stated why. She doesn't like the idea, and she doesn't want the idea to spread to her state.
Quote:
Your arguments aren't based in reality.
Let the doctors leave who are threatening to leave. We're not worried about being able to replace them.
Suzy's arguments aren't based in reality?
Pot meet kettle.
You are essentially talking out of both sides of your mouth on this thread, stating that Suzy's arguments are 'unrealistic', not based in reality', etc. YET, if you really believed that, you wouldn't bother replying in this thread at all. As I pointed out in another post, there would be no need to reply to/try to combat something that has no chance of happening.
Quote:
And, since you obviously don't think your argument about physicians leaving is valid, now you're trying to say that the other workers in the hospitals will also leave? And members of families will have to do their jobs?
That's inane. Obviously, even you agree that your arguments don't hold water, if you're trying to convince us that even the janitors will leave and family members will have to do their jobs for free LOL. Just, really. Come on.
^^^^^ With the last two paragraphs that I am quoting above in the last quote, it is obvious that the sarcasm in the last paragraph of Suzy's post (the post that you were replying to above) went zooming over your head.
I am responding to show a Californian's point of view on the thread started by someone in Georgia who is telling people in CA, on the CA forum, that we must vote against a new bill because if we don't we won't have any doctors left in CA.
So, just for the record out there, to whomever is reading this CD forum - as an actual CA resident who has lived in this state most of my 60+ years - I say this is nonsense.
I just want it on the record. I believe I've accomplished that. Now you can all go back to lobbying for the big pharm and big healthcare networks and wealthy plastic surgeons, and agreeing with each other.
You're still being hysterical. We also passed a law here that said grocery stores had to stop giving out free plastic bags, so we could save our landfills from overflowing and hurting the environment. We lived to tell the tale.
We'll live to tell this tale, too.
That you swallowed the bolded hook, line, and sinker, demonstrates that you don't have a clue. More than one grocery store manager in California has admitted to me that the idea came from a grocery trade association....with profit as the motive, not improvement for the environment.
Quote:
I'm grateful you're so worried about the state of my state, so far away from your own. Thanks. But, we'll be fine.
Despite how much you might wish it to be so, California isn't a separate country. Suzy doesn't want this idea to spread to other states and neither do I. As far as it being 'your state', unless you are NA, or from an original Spanish land grant family (the Pico family, and a number of others) I can just about guarantee my roots are deeper in California than are yours.
Quote:
Oh, and I usually actually prefer to be seen by a Nurse Practitioner. They are just as capable and are less arrogant, and usually less rushed and better listeners.
^^^^^ Just as I suspected earlier in this thread, this isn't all about policy (as it should be), it's also partly about getting in a dig toward a group (doctors) that you have social disdain for.
Quote:
You just can't make me worry about this. And I doubt you'll get a majority of CA voters to buy into this hysteria, either. We see it for what it is.
The lady doth protest too much. You have already demonstrated that you are worried about it, else you wouldn't have posted to this thread, let alone so defensively. You would simply have ignored this thread.
I am responding to show a Californian's point of view
Other Californians have posted to this thread, some who disagree with you.
Quote:
on the thread started by someone in Georgia
^^^^^ Which is irrelevant.
Quote:
who is telling people in CA
Wrong. The audience includes people who don't live in California.
Quote:
, on the CA forum, that we must vote against a new bill
She isn't ordering or commanding anything. She suggested, and put forth her reasoning.
Quote:
because if we don't we won't have any doctors left in CA.
Hyperbole ^^^^^.
The OP found an interesting article, and also included her view. Multiple posters in this thread replied to the OP that they appreciated her posting the information. You just don't like the link, and disagree with the OP.
Quote:
So, just for the record out there, to whomever is reading this CD forum - as an actual CA resident who has lived in this state most of my 60+ years - I say this is nonsense.
That what is nonsense? You aren't being crystal clear as to what you think is nonsense.
Is it that California won't have any doctors left if this bill passes? (Which has NEVER been asserted by the OP)
Or is it that you think it is nonsense that the OP is posting in a forum for a state that she doesn't live in? (which is NOT against the TOS)
Quote:
I just want it on the record. I believe I've accomplished that.
Which one of the above? Or something else entirely?
Quote:
Now you can all go back to lobbying for the big pharm and big healthcare networks and wealthy plastic surgeons, and agreeing with each other.
^^^^^ Additional evidence that part of this isn't about policy with you. It's partially about getting in a dig against a particular group or groups of high status individuals.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Other than the few years I had a Kaiser individual plan, my experience has been the polar opposite of yours, and I spent roughly the same number of years living in California as you have. Re the way you worded the above, it doesn't sound as though you have much, if any, experience dealing with doctors in private practice....which have been plentiful in California over the period of your long life.
