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Old 02-08-2019, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,653 posts, read 3,046,764 times
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^^ No, IMO it tells me that the "artificial Prop 13 rate" was too small and isn't reality.
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:36 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,666,290 times
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^^ Or, the government thirst for tax money can never be satiated...
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:50 AM
 
6,089 posts, read 4,986,718 times
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Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
^^ Or, the government thirst for tax money can never be satiated...
Which is why Prop 13 has become a topic of interest again.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:10 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,666,290 times
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Everyone I know has to live within a budget or fail...

Property Tax is just too darn tempting for government.

It is not like Income or Sales Tax which requires consistent initiation by the person being taxed...

Property Tax just happens... and has been shown time again that buying into a neighborhood and putting down roots leaves one very vulnerable when it comes to taxes and guesstimates of market value at any given point in time...

I worked in Europe after graduation and made lasting friendships... some of my collegues were living in family homes going back hundreds of years...

We would often talk of similarities and contrasts...

Property tax is VERY low because it is public policy that people should be secure in their home and passing it down through the generations is culture...

They had a hard time understanding why Americans keep moving and how any working individual can pay such high rates of property tax...

They have high income and sales tax and after having experienced both systems I like their system of taxation... because it doesn't threaten the roof over my family's head....

I can choose to work less or work more... I can choose to make do with my old car or no car... don't need a home full of electronics either... all things that are taxed much higher in Europe.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:34 AM
 
629 posts, read 619,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougStark View Post
Another "unintended consequence" of Prop 13? It basically makes a person have to stay where they live, even though they want to move. Because if you move (and buy), you have to pay "the true" property tax, not the made-up one under Prop 13.
So basically the same as rent control. Which decreases inventory/supply, thus increasing demand. Thus increasing the cost of rent to those trying to get in, making expensive places even more expensive.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:22 AM
 
6,089 posts, read 4,986,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alliance View Post
So basically the same as rent control. Which decreases inventory/supply, thus increasing demand. Thus increasing the cost of rent to those trying to get in, making expensive places even more expensive.
Facts.

Rent control has actually hurt potential renters in SF and LA.
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:55 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,395,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alliance View Post
So basically the same as rent control. Which decreases inventory/supply, thus increasing demand. Thus increasing the cost of rent to those trying to get in, making expensive places even more expensive.
What makes expensive places more expensive is the number of people who can afford to buy. Many can't accept that and think raising taxes, getting rid of Prop 13, 4etc will help. Nope or people would not be buying at high prices now and paying more than their neighbor who bought 10 years ago. That is simply life. Make enough of move elsewhere.
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:05 PM
 
26 posts, read 12,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Everyone I know has to live within a budget or fail...

Property Tax is just too darn tempting for government.

It is not like Income or Sales Tax which requires consistent initiation by the person being taxed...

Property Tax just happens... and has been shown time again that buying into a neighborhood and putting down roots leaves one very vulnerable when it comes to taxes and guesstimates of market value at any given point in time...

I worked in Europe after graduation and made lasting friendships... some of my collegues were living in family homes going back hundreds of years...

We would often talk of similarities and contrasts...

Property tax is VERY low because it is public policy that people should be secure in their home and passing it down through the generations is culture...

They had a hard time understanding why Americans keep moving and how any working individual can pay such high rates of property tax...

They have high income and sales tax and after having experienced both systems I like their system of taxation... because it doesn't threaten the roof over my family's head....

I can choose to work less or work more... I can choose to make do with my old car or no car... don't need a home full of electronics either... all things that are taxed much higher in Europe.
Taxation varies widely in Europe by country and state within the respective country.

Property taxes in Germany don't appear lower.

Germany appears to tax houses based on assessed house value with a base tax rate multiplied by a municipal multiplier. Seems like berlin's municipal multiplier is around 400% bringing the effective property tax on assessed value at 1.6%

Additionally most European countries have real estate transfer taxes in addition to capital gains tax.

https://www.gtai.de/GTAI/Navigation/...-property.html

https://www.broosco.com/en/blog/view...+north+Europe/
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:28 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,666,290 times
Reputation: 23268
Quote:
Originally Posted by alliance View Post
So basically the same as rent control. Which decreases inventory/supply, thus increasing demand. Thus increasing the cost of rent to those trying to get in, making expensive places even more expensive.
Several years supply 2009-12 and this was 30+ years after Prop 13 became law. Not a city block in my city escaped.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:34 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,666,290 times
Reputation: 23268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbymcG View Post
Taxation varies widely in Europe by country and state within the respective country.

Property taxes in Germany don't appear lower.

Germany appears to tax houses based on assessed house value with a base tax rate multiplied by a municipal multiplier. Seems like berlin's municipal multiplier is around 400% bringing the effective property tax on assessed value at 1.6%

Additionally most European countries have real estate transfer taxes in addition to capital gains tax.



https://www.gtai.de/GTAI/Navigation/...-property.html

https://www.broosco.com/en/blog/view...+north+Europe/
Should have more specific. Worked Land Salzburg which is in Austria and property tax was not an issue and paid for very specific things yet the roads were excellent, trash didn't pile up, snow removed, public transportation, Internet to the tiniest mountain villages and very good public schools. People were not hesitant to invest and maintain their homes and the notion of selling quite foreign.

As for transfer taxes Oakland has a very hefty one

Estate planning is a must in Austria. Homes are almost always turned over via Life Estate which can reduce inheritance tax by 90%
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