Prop 13 (megatopic) (Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento: bus, health care, millionaire)

[JGC97]

Well, I don't know how long it (the rising taxes) can go on before all of us who once were considered middle-income will be asking for government handouts because we're among the poor. My only hope is that I die before it gets that bad. I really hate to see the younger generation getting strangled with so much tax but they - as voters - are the only ones who can stop it.

You made a wise decision to sell. I'm too old to do that now. With no family left, where the heck does an old single person go? I've been here since birth and within a 50 mile radius. I know this area like the back of my hand. I'm too damned old to move away and start over. Who starts over at 67?

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

Well, I don't know how long it (the rising taxes) can go on before all of us who once were considered middle-income will be asking for government handouts because we're among the poor. My only hope is that I die before it gets that bad. I really hate to see the younger generation getting strangled with so much tax but they - as voters - are the only ones who can stop it.

You made a wise decision to sell. I'm too old to do that now. With no family left, where the heck does an old single person go? I've been here since birth and within a 50 mile radius. I know this area like the back of my hand. I'm too damned old to move away and start over. Who starts over at 67?

C'mon man. 67 isn't even that old.

Buy a cabin in Montana, travel to Waikiki in the Summer, it's a big world, with many options. I could see you enjoying for the next decade.

[Finper]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

Well, I don't know how long it (the rising taxes) can go on before all of us who once were considered middle-income will be asking for government handouts because we're among the poor. My only hope is that I die before it gets that bad. I really hate to see the younger generation getting strangled with so much tax but they - as voters - are the only ones who can stop it.

You made a wise decision to sell. I'm too old to do that now. With no family left, where the heck does an old single person go? I've been here since birth and within a 50 mile radius. I know this area like the back of my hand. I'm too damned old to move away and start over. Who starts over at 67?

You could move to a senior community in Az or Nv. You have no family here what's stopping you? You could cash out and have a great social life there. 67 is not that old.

[horchata111]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Oh I hear you.

It was one of the main reasons I began selling my CA properties in 2017. I saw the writing on the wall.

- Dem Supermajority
- Top candidates for Governor: Newsom, De Leon (who ended up running for senator)

I'm just wondering at a time when California basically wasted billions on HSR, the DMV budget is going to be exhausted in 1-2 years, long term liabilities are at all-time highs, and Newsom's platform promise was "health care for all (even illegal aliens)", why people think Prop 13 would survive a ballot initiative.

If Vegas was taking odds, I would put a large bet on it not surviving depending on how Democrats in California framed the argument.

rent control failed in 2018 though. how do you explain that?

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

C'mon man. 67 isn't even that old.

Buy a cabin in Montana, travel to Waikiki in the Summer, it's a big world, with many options. I could see you enjoying for the next decade.

Ah yes. Montana. Where the men are men and the sheep are scared. (sorry. did not mean to offend the good people of Montana. It's an old joke but come to think of it, I think it's Wyoming anyway) Seriously, I like my life. I like my neighbors, my little town, the weather, traffic (and lack of it) and I have my friends, too. So, life is good! Although, if you know of a sugar daddy that would like to take me to all those places ......

Originally Posted by Finper

You could move to a senior community in Az or Nv. You have no family here what's stopping you? You could cash out and have a great social life there. 67 is not that old.

Do those places allow you to bring your power tools? I build a lot of things and I'm pretty sure the neighbors would complain about the noise.

[JJonesIII]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Why are some people so convinced of this?

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

It was one of the main reasons I began selling my CA properties in 2017. I saw the writing on the wall.

If Vegas was taking odds, I would put a large bet on it not surviving depending on how Democrats in California framed the argument.

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

Well, I don't know how long it (the rising taxes) can go on before all of us who once were considered middle-income will be asking for government handouts because we're among the poor.

You made a wise decision to sell.

Originally Posted by horchata111

rent control failed in 2018 though. how do you explain that?

Most of us are convinced of it because no one would take something like this lightly and not show up at the polls. I agree with horchata that although you have some blowhards on the internet that make it appear that this is some grassroots effort going on, I'll call it what it is. This is a situation where if you keep repeating a lie over and over, some people will actually believe it's true, but it's simply astroturfing. Don't you think if this thing had any legs, Prop 13 would have been repealed years ago? Most people I know chose to rent their houses out instead of sell when they moved away (I consider that the prudent thing to do and something you should consider Mars if you ever decide to move). I'm not sure where you're at, but most people in my neighborhood are getting between $3500 and $4000 per month. The reason rent control failed is even renters are now understanding what happens when you put too many restrictions on landlords (and plenty of renters voted for Prop 13). If Prop 13 was ever repealed, I believe the first people that would feel the heat would be renters as those property tax increases would be passed on to them immediately. And those people earning six figures would have to live somewhere so they would pay it. As much as you hear stories about people living in their cars at places like Google and the like, this isn't some widespread practice (nor do I think the tech companies would allow it). I suspect there would be a mass exodus of people, but not houses. If you're a homeowner in any metropolitan city in CA, the best thing you can do is hang on to your house and keep it in the family. The cash flow will keep you afloat for years to come! The only caveat to that would be rent controlled areas where you would need to put some thought into it as you would not be free to increase rent as you see fit.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by horchata111

rent control failed in 2018 though. how do you explain that?

It's about who is being targeted.

Renters aren't "admired" or "envied". Renters are part of the peasant class in California. They generally attract more sympathy, and anyone who has read the first 10 pages of any basic economics knows how rent control would ravage the supply of rentals in the market and actually hurt renters. That's why Prop 10 failed.

Home owners are a juicier "privileged" target. People won't think about the lower income retirees who own an old 3/2 fixer in Sacramento. When they vote down Prop 13, they'll be thinking of the Marin County tech millionaire who lives in a neighborhood that they actually covet but could never afford.

Their vote will in effect be a "stab" of envy towards a rich privileged class that they can blame for an unfair system.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by JJonesIII

Most of us are convinced of it because no one would take something like this lightly and not show up at the polls. I agree with horchata that although you have some blowhards on the internet that make it appear that this is some grassroots effort going on, I'll call it what it is. This is a situation where if you keep repeating a lie over and over, some people will actually believe it's true, but it's simply astroturfing. Don't you think if this thing had any legs, Prop 13 would have been repealed years ago? Most people I know chose to rent their houses out instead of sell when they moved away (I consider that the prudent thing to do and something you should consider Mars if you ever decide to move). I'm not sure where you're at, but most people in my neighborhood are getting between $3500 and $4000 per month. The reason rent control failed is even renters are now understanding what happens when you put too many restrictions on landlords (and plenty of renters voted for Prop 13). If Prop 13 was ever repealed, I believe the first people that would feel the heat would be renters as those property tax increases would be passed on to them immediately. And those people earning six figures would have to live somewhere so they would pay it. As much as you hear stories about people living in their cars at places like Google and the like, this isn't some widespread practice (nor do I think the tech companies would allow it). I suspect there would be a mass exodus of people, but not houses. If you're a homeowner in any metropolitan city in CA, the best thing you can do is hang on to your house and keep it in the family. The cash flow will keep you afloat for years to come!

We'll see what happens with the Split roll next year.

I'll make sure to resurrect this thread so people can revisit their claims (just like with the California High Speed rail thread, where everyone who thought it was a great project suddenly disappeared, never to be seen again).

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by horchata111

actually those online who claim to not see the value of prop 13 often are astroturfing. they know exactly what they are doing.

Maybe paid by groups that want to get the idea out that it hurts people rather than helping them?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Oh I hear you.

It was one of the main reasons I began selling my CA properties in 2017. I saw the writing on the wall.

- Dem Supermajority
- Top candidates for Governor: Newsom, De Leon (who ended up running for senator)

I'm just wondering at a time when California basically wasted billions on HSR, the DMV budget is going to be exhausted in 1-2 years, long term liabilities are at all-time highs, and Newsom's platform promise was "health care for all (even illegal aliens)", why people think Prop 13 would survive a ballot initiative.

If Vegas was taking odds, I would put a large bet on it not surviving depending on how Democrats in California framed the argument.

Yeah a lot of that impacted my wife and I when we looked at moving back. Saw no good reason to waste money and have to deal with all the other problems. Now when we want, we can visit enjoy what we like and leave and have a LOT of money left in our pockets.