PG&E in Bankruptcy - Nothing Left Here to Loot (Bakersfield: 2015, house)

[ryanst530]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/p...--finance.html

And so, as with the Penn Central railroad bankruptcy of fifty years ago and the collapse of most privately-held city transit systems before that, the orgy of outrage and blame-throwing begins.

Those of us with a better understanding of our not-free-enough enterprise system will probably be splitting our sides laughing as all the SJWs and eco-Nazis try to reject the facts that this debacle is the result of their own short-sight and lack of understanding of how markets have to be allowed to work. Bon Voyage!

Your argument is illogical as-is. Explain...

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/p...--finance.html

And so, as with the Penn Central railroad bankruptcy of fifty years ago and the collapse of most privately-held city transit systems before that, the orgy of outrage and blame-throwing begins.

Those of us with a better understanding of our not-free-enough enterprise system will probably be splitting our sides laughing as all the SJWs and eco-Nazis try to reject the facts that this debacle is the result of their own short-sight and lack of understanding of how markets have to be allowed to work. Bon Voyage!

I'm not sure what SJW's & eco-Nazis have to do with it, but it's a valid question, as to whether utilities should be publicly held, as in WA State, which has some of the cheapest electricity in the country, or private businesses subject to market forces. Neither choice guarantees that they would be well-managed, with revenues being re-invested in the system, to keep it updated and in good condition. Perhaps state oversight is needed. Or would that only introduce another potential layer of corruption?

The way I understood it, PG&E is in trouble not only because of the Camp Fire, but because of the Santa Rosa fire, as well. In the Camp Fire, the cause wasn't faulty equipment; it was a decision to keep the electricity on, when high winds had been predicted. They had warned the public, that it might be necessary to shut off service, but enough residents in the area complained, that the utility decided to keep the electricity on, seemingly in response to public demand. Tragically, people paid for that decision with their lives. It was an irresponsible decision. In the Santa Rosa fire, the problem truly was faulty equipment, IIRC.

But as weather phenomena become more severe with climate change, we may see in the future, a trend toward utilities being overwhelmed. Should they spend billions, to build infrastructure strong enough to withstand freak conditions? Is that a reasonable and practicable expectation? Of course the customers would have to pay for that, and...where would the steel come from? Not more Chinese steel, as in the Bay Bridge, hopefullY? What's the solution, looking to the future?

Even if PG&E really did roll over and die in bankruptcy, who would take over in their place, and how would they handle these issues? This is a be-careful-what-you-wish-for situation. Perhaps the legislature should address this? IDK, does anyone have any ideas?

As for the exorbitantly-cushy retirement the outgoing CEO is slated to get, I wonder: couldn't a judge do something about that? Or is it a contractual matter, and therefore locked in?

[janellen]

Great site that gives electricity rates per state:| States with Lowest Rates

Residential Rates by State

Commercial Rates by State

[JGC97]

Thanks janellen. I'm thinking the rate and position of where California ranks will soon change, what with PG&E filing bankruptcy. I'm sure our rates will rise very soon. Those who don't have PG&E are very fortunate.

[davidt1]

I don't have PG&E for electricity. I have SMUD, a so-called non-profit, community-based utility outfit. They continually increased rates and most recently introduced a highway robbery tactics called time-of-use to fleece their customers even more.

You know it can't be good when it's run by public employees.

[janellen]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

Thanks janellen. I'm thinking the rate and position of where California ranks will soon change, what with PG&E filing bankruptcy. I'm sure our rates will rise very soon. Those who don't have PG&E are very fortunate.

I bet you're right Mars, but don't feel bad, I have Southern Cal Edison and they raise their rates at least once a year. My summer bill (June, July, August, September) will run $350-$400/month. The rest of the months it'll be $70-$90 (I heat with natural gas). This is for one person in a small two bedroom house. That doesn't even count my well pump. It's on a separate meter. Water bill will run from $50 in winter to $150 in summer. I did have a solar pump for awhile and had free water, but someone in the neighborhood wanted the solar panels so one night they disappeared.


How does Edison compare to PGE?

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by janellen

I bet you're right Mars, but don't feel bad, I have Southern Cal Edison and they raise their rates at least once a year. My summer bill (June, July, August, September) will run $350-$400/month. The rest of the months it'll be $70-$90 (I heat with natural gas). This is for one person in a small two bedroom house. That doesn't even count my well pump. It's on a separate meter. Water bill will run from $50 in winter to $150 in summer. I did have a solar pump for awhile and had free water, but someone in the neighborhood wanted the solar panels so one night they disappeared.

How does Edison compare to PGE?

Guess I was wrong about that, janellen. I don't know whether it's the price of electric or maybe due to having all the walls insulated in this old '55 ranch before moving in but my my cooling bill in summer isn't much more than 90 dollars. And I live in the valley where summer temps are well over 100°F during summer months. Although, my electric is supplied by my city. PG&E handles only the gas portion of the bill.

What dirty rotten scoundrels to steal your panels. The nerve!

[turkeydance]

PG&E is a retirement plan for executives.

[ikoolu]

i can tell you in texas we have multiple choices for power - some cities lock out the smaller companies like austin but my rate is 0.095 per kw with all the fees included - you n get a contract for 6 months to two years - shop around and find the best plan that fits your needs

deregulation prompts competition - too bad the pols cant figure that out -

[citizensadvocate]

Originally Posted by davidt1

I don't have PG&E for electricity. I have SMUD, a so-called non-profit, community-based utility outfit. They continually increased rates and most recently introduced a highway robbery tactics called time-of-use to fleece their customers even more.

You know it can't be good when it's run by public employees.

An interesting phenomena I noticed about these municipal utility companies in CA. While SMUD rates seems much lower than PG&E I heard they were also hit hard during the 2001 energy crisis, hence many escalators and elevators were shut down those two years and a/c turned to stifling temperatures of 78f or higher even in high ended hotels. Housekeeping staff had been ordered to turn room A/Cs off after they leave instead of turning it on for the returning guests' comfort like they always did before. So it appears even municipal energy companies weren't immune from this though they generally still have lower rates than these three giants. I remember people in Palo Alto CA who had their own municipal utility report their rates gone up 100% ie from $25-$50 for a tiny one bedroom apartment during 2001. Even though not as bad as those in PG&E.

It appears Agenda 21/ Agenda 2030 folks and ICLEI are causing utility rates to skyrocket in California and other places around the country and world and levying punitive tiered rates and time of use as well and or rolling back subsidies in areas that subsidies energy.
In attempt to change consumer behavior and to subsidize use of more renewable resources in order to eventually eliminate both fossil fuel and nuclear energy use completely within the next 20 years. The enormous cost of the decommissioning of the San Onfre power plant and the upcoming decommission of Diablo Canyon is already a reason that will keep power rates skyrocketing throughout the years even without the disasters these days.
These days it appears Solar Panels will pay for itself, if you are lucky enough to get a good deal and are able to install them. Those in a place where trees cover the sun's rays, deal with flying golf balls, or live in attached housing are out of luck.