Prop 13 reform to be on 2020 ballot (Oakland: eviction, exemptions, store)

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by robrelo

You get exactly what you vote for.

So when someone votes no on this proposition, and another guy votes yes, they'll both get what they wanted?



The problem with all these ballot initiatives is they're an end-run around the legislative process.

[alliance]

The biggest problem we’re facing here, just like every time a vote is proposed where someone else will be paying for something, is people aren’t asking the right question. It’s not “should we make them pay for *insert reason here* by raising their taxes?” It should always be “am I ok if my cost of living goes up?” Always. Always always always assume that when a new tax is proposed that the target you are expecting to pay will turn around and drag you along. Always! Every damn time!

Here’s the deal. I won’t be paying for this extra property tax. I will actually be paying less, since I am pushing my second tenant from a gross lease to a triple net lease starting in November. So the little that I was paying before will now be paid by them, because i see what’s going to happen. Hell, my tenants won’t be paying for it either, not really. Their customers will be, when they raise prices.

But at the end of the day, everyone will be asking “why the hell is everything getting so expensive? It already cost a lot to live here!” And then your trusted politician excitedly peaks his/her head around the corner, saying “I’ll tell you why! It’s those evil greedy business owners and property owners! Let’s raise their taxes and then we can use that money to help you out!”


Rinse.

Repeat...

[alliance]

Originally Posted by joosoon

That's entirely the reason they put these things to referendum and bypass the legislature. Direct democracy is all about appealing to people's emotions and idiocy.

This is why we are a republic, and not a democracy. And thank god we are. The founding fathers were brilliant for protecting the stability of the country against the masses.

The average person has no clue that we aren’t actually a true democracy. Probably because Democrats shout over and over that we live in a democracy, and why when things don’t go their way it’s just so unfair. Like what’s happening since the last election.

The politicians know we don’t, they’re not ignorant of the laws, but the people don’t need to know that. Not when they can be manipulated so easily. Obviously, both sides do it, but in California, where there are no checks and balances, it is 100% in one direction. Which is very very dangerous.

[Racer46]

Originally Posted by alliance

This is why we are a republic, and not a democracy. And thank god we are. The founding fathers were brilliant for protecting the stability of the country against the masses.

The average person has no clue that we aren’t actually a true democracy. Probably because Democrats shout over and over that we live in a democracy, and why when things don’t go their way it’s just so unfair. Like what’s happening since the last election.

The politicians know we don’t, they’re not ignorant of the laws, but the people don’t need to know that. Not when they can be manipulated so easily. Obviously, both sides do it, but in California, where there are no checks and balances, it is 100% in one direction. Which is very very dangerous.

Do they still have Civic classes in school where the constitution and the meaning of a republic, democracy etc is taught?

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by Racer46

Do they still have Civic classes in school where the constitution and the meaning of a republic, democracy etc is taught?

Of course; this one semester course is a requirement for a diploma from any public high school in California.

[alliance]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Of course; this one semester course is a requirement for a diploma from any public high school in California.

I would say the better question is, how is it taught? Is it taught to indoctrinate towards progressivism (extremism), which is happening at universities all over the country, or are they actually teaching the source material as it was intended? Meaning, are they presenting the source material without bias in an effort simply to educate and inform, or do they teach that it is living, outdated, and needs to be updated/changed to reflect the desires of a current political leaning? That probably varies by region, if I were to guess. I would never raise kids in this state though, knowing what I now know of how California wants “education” to be done.

Seeing as how the average person is wanting to abolish the electoral college, one of the fundamental components of how we determine leadership and the most effective method at both fairness towards the individual states as well as preventing the dangers of a true democracy (read, keeping the ignorant masses from running things into the ground) where small heavily populated regions and states literally run the rest of the country, I’d say that it is taught very poorly (or I suppose you could argue it is taught well, depending on your personal beliefs on the subject). The way that California votes is another example of what happens in a democracy. Which takes us back to the topic of this thread. Without checks and balances within a government, the average useful idiot blindly does what they’re told, believing their hero politicians, which never ends well. The outcomes of things like this proposition are obvious for those who can think critically, but how many voters actually consider the true consequences of what they vote for...? And then when it doesn’t go as promised they pass blame elsewhere, and the politicians are there to give them nudges towards groups who had nothing to do with it. Damn rich people, white people, racists, bigots, Republicans. But mostly it’s trumps fault. Never their own.

Apologize for the political tangent, but it’s getting harder and harder to have any discussion on any topic without politics being a factor nowadays. Especially on this forum, which is part of why I personally rarely look at it anymore. It’s a toxic echochamber of anger and hate, but that’s a reflection of leftism, IMO.

Ok, I’m done with that, apologies again.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by alliance

I would say the better question is, how is it taught? Is it taught to indoctrinate towards progressivism (extremism), which is happening at universities all over the country, or are they actually teaching the source material as it was intended? Meaning, are they presenting the source material without bias in an effort simply to educate and inform, or do they teach that it is living, outdated, and needs to be updated/changed to reflect the desires of a current political leaning? That probably varies by region, if I were to guess. I would never raise kids in this state though, knowing what I now know of how California wants “education” to be done.

Seeing as how the average person is wanting to abolish the electoral college, one of the fundamental components of how we determine leadership and the most effective method at both fairness towards the individual states as well as preventing the dangers of a true democracy (read, keeping the ignorant masses from running things into the ground) where small heavily populated regions and states literally run the rest of the country, I’d say that it is taught very poorly (or I suppose you could argue it is taught well, depending on your personal beliefs on the subject). The way that California votes is another example of what happens in a democracy. Which takes us back to the topic of this thread. Without checks and balances within a government, the average useful idiot blindly does what they’re told, believing their hero politicians, which never ends well. The outcomes of things like this proposition are obvious for those who can think critically, but how many voters actually consider the true consequences of what they vote for...? And then when it doesn’t go as promised they pass blame elsewhere, and the politicians are there to give them nudges towards groups who had nothing to do with it. Damn rich people, white people, racists, bigots, Republicans. But mostly it’s trumps fault. Never their own.

Apologize for the political tangent, but it’s getting harder and harder to have any discussion on any topic without politics being a factor nowadays. Especially on this forum, which is part of why I personally rarely look at it anymore. It’s a toxic echochamber of anger and hate, but that’s a reflection of leftism, IMO.

Ok, I’m done with that, apologies again.

The electoral college is a joke, it trashes the concept of "one person one vote". Your explanations of the virtues of the electoral college weren't very compelling.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...elections-2016

[1AngryTaxPayer]

If there weren't balances like the Constitution or Electoral College things like gay marriage would be banned in California. For starters.

[Astral_Weeks]

Originally Posted by alliance

Seeing as how the average person is wanting to abolish the electoral college, one of the fundamental components of how we determine leadership and the most effective method at both fairness towards the individual states as well as preventing the dangers of a true democracy (read, keeping the ignorant masses from running things into the ground) where small heavily populated regions and states literally run the rest of the country, I’d say that it is taught very poorly (or I suppose you could argue it is taught well, depending on your personal beliefs on the subject).

There is nothing in the constitution requiring the arcane "winner-take-all" system we have in 48 of the 50 states. There are millions of Republicans in 'blue' California and millions of Democrats in 'red' Texas whose votes just disappear in Presidential elections.

Every state could just adopt a system like Maine and Nebraska currently use and allocate their electors by the popular vote in each of their congressional districts. Totally more representative and completely within the E.C. and constitutional framework.

Originally Posted by alliance

Apologize for the political tangent, but it’s getting harder and harder to have any discussion on any topic without politics being a factor nowadays. Especially on this forum, which is part of why I personally rarely look at it anymore. It’s a toxic echochamber of anger and hate, but that’s a reflection of leftism, IMO.

Just remember when you point a finger there are three pointing right back at you.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

If there weren't balances like the Constitution or Electoral College things like gay marriage would be banned in California. For starters.

What does the electoral college have to do with gay marriage?