Lack of big cities in areas with 4 seasons in california? why?

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

A good portion of Bay Area basically turns into "winter" during sunset for about 1/3 of the winter. Thus Mark Twain's quote on how the coldest winter he ever spent is a summer in San Francisco.

Austin seems to get more extreme short cold snaps during a typical winter than Sacramento, and Sacramento record of snowfall or icy conditions within a certain period in a number of years don't really exceed that of Austin's record.

Compared to the rest of COUNTRY, Sacramento cools off much faster, daily, in the summer. Those cold summers in San Francisco due to the Cold Pacific are a Blessing for Sacramento.

92F is piece of cake in Sacramento in the summer; very comfortable dew points, and manageable. Sacramento cools 30-40 degrees from the high to the low in 24hour period in the summer! You can expect a morning low of 58-62F in the summer.

92F in Austin is like 105F and overwhelmingly oppressive, and Austin doesn't cool down not nearly as much as Sacramento does. You can expect heat index of low 80's in the morning in Austin, it never really cools down significantly like it does in Sacramento.

Austin winters are barely warmer than a Sacramento winter. And, yes you are correct. Central Texas gets deep cold snaps from the North, Arctic Dips, etc. Austin is much more likely to get daytime ICE and Wind Chill in the 20's and Teens in Austin than Sacramento. There is little to no Ice in Sacramento, let alone snow. A Sacramento winter is near identical to the Bay Area's Santa Rosa or San Jose.

December - Averages
Austin: 62/42; Sacramento: 57/42

January - Averages
Austin: 59/40; Sacramento: 56/41

February - Averages
Austin: 64/44; Sacramento 63/45

[citizensadvocate]

Sorry I meant 1/3 of summer not 1/3 of winter
imagine being homeless in the Bay Area. You would have to contend with winter like temperatures in the Bay Area for at least 300 days of the year.

I am curious where the above figures come from, though I am curious whether currentresults are reliable either.

currentresults.com/Weather/Texas/Places/austin-temperatures-by-month-average.php Austin seems to average 8 degrees higher during the winter for daily highs. Though LA is 6 degrees warmer than Austin during the same winter months.

The fog in Sacramento Valley makes it feel pretty cold and keeps highs from going above 50 for a number of days during summer. On fog free days it can be 60s and sunny on warmer days. Though Austin seems to see much more days in the 70s and sometimes even the 80s during the winter months than Sacramento ever does. Though its interesting how the rare cold snaps seems more extreme in Austin than it is in Sacramento at least during the same recordkeeping history.

[Chimérique]

I usually use weather.com and NOAA. I did a quick google search for those winter averages.

Winter fog has been virtually non-existent in Sacramento for the last 5-8yrs now (climate change perhaps). The kind of fog that sticks around keeping the temps at or below 50F has not occurred in a long long time. There was a little bit this morning in my Sacramento neighborhood when I looked out the window at 6:30am, by the time I left the house at 7am it was all gone.

[citizensadvocate]

sorry I meant winter not summer. No fog in the summer usually in the valley except on a extreme layered onshore flow. Otherwise winter temps in most NorCal locations are roughly similar except in higher elevations. In otherwords We don't see the dramatic 30f apart microclimates just 20 miles apart we see during late spring, summer, and early fall. In winter its usually just six-degree difference max for all cities at similar elevation. SoCal does gets its mid winter heatwaves though which brings summer like situations including 90f(32C) temps.

Though it appears Austin is overall more comfortable in the winter, with more 70 even 80 days and fewer days with fog compared with NorCal. With the exception of those short-lasting arctic blasts which means people would be caught off guard and not have the proper clothing for it. Though I wish in return for contending with the chilliness/fogginess of a NorCal winter we see a little more days of the white stuff. Than the warmer areas of the country. Maybe 4 dustings a year would be best. Though it seems chilly NorCal seem to record a similar amount of snow fall incidents in a century period as Austin which is warmer.

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

sorry I meant winter not summer. No fog in the summer usually in the valley except on a extreme layered onshore flow. Otherwise winter temps in most NorCal locations are roughly similar except in higher elevations. In otherwords We don't see the dramatic 30f apart microclimates just 20 miles apart we see during late spring, summer, and early fall. In winter its usually just six-degree difference max for all cities at similar elevation. SoCal does gets its mid winter heatwaves though which brings summer like situations including 90f(32C) temps.

Though it appears Austin is overall more comfortable in the winter, with more 70 even 80 days and fewer days with fog compared with NorCal. With the exception of those short-lasting arctic blasts which means people would be caught off guard and not have the proper clothing for it. Though I wish in return for contending with the chilliness/fogginess of a NorCal winter we see a little more days of the white stuff. Than the warmer areas of the country. Maybe 4 dustings a year would be best. Though it seems chilly NorCal seem to record a similar amount of snow fall incidents in a century period as Austin which is warmer.

I would summarize it like this: the better summer in Sacramento far outweighs the slightly warmer winter in Austin. A Sacramento summer regularly and consistently gives you more than half of a 24hr period of either comfortable temps or down right Cool temps in the Summer. Austin is the completel opposite; its oppressive and uncomfortable the entire 24 hour period for the entire Summer. Austin, literally, has the worst summer in American minus Phoenix.

A Sacramento winter is quite mild by most standards. I personally love the rainy period because I know it lasts only 3 months long and its still mild 50-60F. I think its fair to say that those Arctic blasts(teens and 20s) that Austin gets were comparable to the low 40's of foggy days that Sacramento used to get. But Sacramento doesn't get those lengthily foggy days anymore.

So overall I would take a Sacramento winter over an Austin winter because I like that Sacramento is within 15minutes to 30minutes of a good deal of snow for variety/recreation and 1 to 2 hours from world class skiing in the High Sierra, and literally mountains and mountains of snow.

[tstieber]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

sorry I meant winter not summer. No fog in the summer usually in the valley except on a extreme layered onshore flow. Otherwise winter temps in most NorCal locations are roughly similar except in higher elevations. In otherwords We don't see the dramatic 30f apart microclimates just 20 miles apart we see during late spring, summer, and early fall. In winter its usually just six-degree difference max for all cities at similar elevation. SoCal does gets its mid winter heatwaves though which brings summer like situations including 90f(32C) temps.

Though it appears Austin is overall more comfortable in the winter, with more 70 even 80 days and fewer days with fog compared with NorCal. With the exception of those short-lasting arctic blasts which means people would be caught off guard and not have the proper clothing for it. Though I wish in return for contending with the chilliness/fogginess of a NorCal winter we see a little more days of the white stuff. Than the warmer areas of the country. Maybe 4 dustings a year would be best. Though it seems chilly NorCal seem to record a similar amount of snow fall incidents in a century period as Austin which is warmer.

One reason I would not trade NorCal's typical winter weather for more frequent warm winter stretches along with snow or ice events as in Texas is because of the affect on vegetation. NorCal supports so much exotic vegetation including citrus, avocados, and palms, that such severe cold snaps would radically alter birth recreational gardening and commercial agriculture.

Also keep in mind that warm weather events DO occur in NorCal some winters, even though they are negligible in Sacramento proper due to temperature inversion. However, places like Redding or the Foothills certainly have had many days will into the 70s in several recent winters. Remember the Super Bowl a few years in Santa Clara saw daytime temps in the upper 70s, the same year saw dozens of days in the 70s AND 80s in Santa Cruz, and more than once (January 2013 and, I think, a couple winters ago), I recall temps up to the mid 80s in Santa Rosa and low 80s in parts of Marin (our car read 83f at one point). I also recall when I attended law school in SF in the 90s, we had to hold classes outdoors the first week back after New Year's Day bc it was so warm that it was unbearable indoors without AC. So warm spells DO happen in NorCal winters, just peaking around ten degrees cooler than similar ones in SoCal. And not so much in Sacramento metro.

[tstieber]

Getting back to the original question, I would say the perfect city in California for both perfect climate AND quick access to four seasons is San Diego, bc summer heat and winter cold are as infrequent as you'll get, yet the local Backcountry provides mountains and Forest at elevations as high as 6500 feet within a mere hour's drive. Last weekend, for example, we were playing in the snow. For benign local weather and quick recreational access to four seasons, it can't be beat.