For those leaving California - Conservatives (San Francisco: sale, mover, crime rates)
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Definitely a money benefit, but it isn't because they can't afford to live in CA, it is because they don't want to.
^^^True that. But, none of these people were wealthy by any stretch, either. All squarely middle-class. I was just trying to get back to the original questions which were:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody01
If you're leaving, where are you going, and what are your main reasons for leaving, money or politics? Or both?
<snip>
So why are you leaving? And where are ya headed?
And I think I answered those questions fairly-well on-topic.
Shall I list all of the people I know that have moved into California over the past 10 years?
This is true, but all of the stories here so far are completely biased. You would think that millions of Californians are leaving and nobody is moving in. Instead, on a net basis it's practically imperceptible. Now of course it's all of these rural areas of California where the people are leaving because they're a bunch of gun toting whackjobs that need to go live with their KKK brethren in Utah or Montana, and all of the immigration coming into the state is going to the big cities. So from their perspective it looks like the wheels have come off. But in reality, the major drivers of the state economy are on an absolute tear and total population is up approximately 6% which from an economic perspective is a good thing (from a QOL or environmental standpoint, there is certainly disagreement).
California's NET domestic migration between 2010-2017 was -156,000. From a current population of 39,557,000 people that's a -0.4% loss. Whoopdeedoo. From the cries of people on this on this forum you would think half the state has left. The poor people are leaving and rich people with high paying jobs are moving in. Sounds good to me.
Much more than you say..... From the state's own Legislative Analysts Office:
Between 2007 and 2016, some 5 million people moved in to California and 6 million people moved out to other states — a net loss of about 1 million residents, the report relayed.
The report found that between 1960 and 1990, 4.2 million Americans moved to California and helped accelerate California’s booming economy. Since 1990, though, California has lost nearly all of that gain, with net domestic out-migration averaging 225,000 residents a year.Between 2000 and 2010, out-migration has resulted in lost income of $5.67 billion to Nevada, $4.96 billion to Arizona, $4.07 to Texas, and $3.85 billion to Oregon.
The study found that “if all these trends continue, California may find itself in a situation similar to that of New York and the states of the midwestern Rust Belt in the last century, which have seen populations stagnate for decades, or even fall.”
So there are the facts, like 'em or not. But more importantly, why do you care? I'm still not bashing the state. Everything I say is just from my point of view. If I thought as you obviously do, I would be thrilled to live in CA, but I don't think/feel the way you do. I have a few friends that are native Californians, they love to surf, smoke pot, don't care about the political situation...they love it here. and everyone will admit Southern California has the best weather in the world, hands down....
You do not have to defend this state. The people that love it will always love it, and the people that are fed up and fleeing will not listen to you. Relax, and let's all end up where we will be happy....
California may find itself in a situation similar to that of New York and the states of the midwestern Rust Belt in the last century, which have seen populations stagnate for decades, or even fall.”[/i]
id like to see the effect of depopulation in housing prices and traffic
id like to drive on the I5 and 405 and doesnt have to dread passing LA on my way to Santa Barbara or Central Valley
been hearing depopulation for years but seems to me people just keep on coming
Much more than you say..... From the state's own Legislative Analysts Office:
Between 2007 and 2016, some 5 million people moved in to California and 6 million people moved out to other states — a net loss of about 1 million residents, the report relayed.
The report found that between 1960 and 1990, 4.2 million Americans moved to California and helped accelerate California’s booming economy. Since 1990, though, California has lost nearly all of that gain, with net domestic out-migration averaging 225,000 residents a year.Between 2000 and 2010, out-migration has resulted in lost income of $5.67 billion to Nevada, $4.96 billion to Arizona, $4.07 to Texas, and $3.85 billion to Oregon.
The study found that “if all these trends continue, California may find itself in a situation similar to that of New York and the states of the midwestern Rust Belt in the last century, which have seen populations stagnate for decades, or even fall.”
So there are the facts, like 'em or not. But more importantly, why do you care? I'm still not bashing the state. Everything I say is just from my point of view. If I thought as you obviously do, I would be thrilled to live in CA, but I don't think/feel the way you do. I have a few friends that are native Californians, they love to surf, smoke pot, don't care about the political situation...they love it here. and everyone will admit Southern California has the best weather in the world, hands down....
You do not have to defend this state. The people that love it will always love it, and the people that are fed up and fleeing will not listen to you. Relax, and let's all end up where we will be happy....
Care to share which blog you pulled those quotes from? Just want to know which tinfoil hat you're reading.
Anyone that thinks California is going the way of the rust belt is a complete loon.
Much more than you say..... From the state's own Legislative Analysts Office: Between 2007 and 2016, some 5 million people moved in to California and 6 million people moved out to other states — a net loss of about 1 million residents, the report relayed.
The report found that between 1960 and 1990, 4.2 million Americans moved to California and helped accelerate California’s booming economy. Since 1990, though, California has lost nearly all of that gain, with net domestic out-migration averaging 225,000 residents a year.Between 2000 and 2010, out-migration has resulted in lost income of $5.67 billion to Nevada, $4.96 billion to Arizona, $4.07 to Texas, and $3.85 billion to Oregon.
The study found that “if all these trends continue, California may find itself in a situation similar to that of New York and the states of the midwestern Rust Belt in the last century, which have seen populations stagnate for decades, or even fall.”
So there are the facts, like 'em or not. But more importantly, why do you care? I'm still not bashing the state. Everything I say is just from my point of view. If I thought as you obviously do, I would be thrilled to live in CA, but I don't think/feel the way you do. I have a few friends that are native Californians, they love to surf, smoke pot, don't care about the political situation...they love it here. and everyone will admit Southern California has the best weather in the world, hands down....
You do not have to defend this state. The people that love it will always love it, and the people that are fed up and fleeing will not listen to you. Relax, and let's all end up where we will be happy....
A lot of businesses big and small have left the state too. Toyota being the big one and a big part of Boeing left too. One important thing is that a lot of people are middle class that are just done trying to survive here and leaving. Ca needs middle class people. We're the work horses and pay lots of taxes. It just galls me that politicians are ignoring what's going on. I've run our family business for over 20 years. The employee taxes I pay has tripled in that time and that's just one tax of many I have to pay.
I'm only conservative by Bay Area standards. I'm probably more a right leaning libertarian than anything. Here's my list of issues:
--High cost of housing is the biggest. Even some people on the left are now admitting costs are high because of 40 years of underbuilding. As far as I'm concerned, the artificially high cost of housing acts like a huge tax all by itself.
--Bored with job. I know I need to do something different.
--Homeless situation that they don't do anything about. Part of that is the fault of the courts, but not all of it.
--Earthquake risk. Both NorCal and SoCal are overdue for earthquakes larger than 7.0. I don't want to be here when it / they happen.
--Tired of the general rigid PC mentality and that anyone who doesn't agree with it is a Nazi/racist, etc. Not everyone is like this, but many are, especially the decision makers / movers and shakers in business and government.
--I don't even own a gun, but I find the constant assault on gun rights to be troubling.
--I also agree the illegal immigration situation and the "sanctuary city" BS is a slap in the face to taxpaying citizens and legal immigrants. I'll also say that it's quite a contradiction that we're a state that welcomes all these newcomers yet won't build anywhere near enough housing for them or anyone else.
--I believe California is vulnerable to being attacked by the Chinese (nothing against Chinese people, but the government is another story). I don't want to be here if/when that happens.
I completely understand that many of these are not unique to CA, but they are felt more intensely here. I understand that moving isn't a panacea, but you do what you can to reduce the impact.
I pretty much think America is in serious decline (as is much of the Western World) and that all h*ll is going to break loose at some point. I don't want to be in a densely populated area if/when that happens. But I also know I need to be doing something to at least reduce/control the damage. I've been talking too much on CD and not doing enough in real life. That's gonna change.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 09-11-2019 at 12:38 PM..
A lot of businesses big and small have left the state too. Toyota being the big one and a big part of Boeing left too. One important thing is that a lot of people are middle class that are just done trying to survive here and leaving. Ca needs middle class people. We're the work horses and pay lots of taxes. It just galls me that politicians are ignoring what's going on. I've run our family business for over 20 years. The employee taxes I pay has tripled in that time and that's just one tax of many I have to pay.
Yawn. Too bad your business failed and you need to move somewhere cheaper. Of course you're bitter, nobody likes to look in the mirror and understand that they couldn't hack it. It's much easier to blame the state and scapegoat some mean people in Sacramento instead of taking responsibility for the fact that you weren't able to keep up in a changing environment. Close down your business and move on. Endlessly whining about the state is not good for your mental health.
For each year since 1976, California’s pace of new business creation has been faster than the U.S. rate
Research has shown that “business climate” rankings — which typically look at a state’s corporate taxes and regulatory environment — have less to do with overall economic performance than factors such as favorable weather, geography or being home to a diverse mix of industries. That gives California, with its highly skilled workforce and strategic location on the Pacific Rim, a natural advantage over many other parts of the country.
Many companies will choose to keep their highly skilled workers in California, he said. But they may move back-office operations such as call centers or technical support to more affordable parts of the country, leaving fewer job opportunities for mid-tier workers.
Ultimately no amount of tax incentives could outweigh the benefits of being close to a dense network of customers, suppliers and potential employees. “We have a very high-tech workforce, people with bachelor’s, master’s, PhD’s,” Dubyn said. “It’s hard to get people to relocate, and it’s expensive for the company. I would basically have to reformulate the company.”
If you're running some easy unskilled labor job like auto manufacture assembly it is absolutely in your best interests to move to a low cost place like Tennessee where you have a huge labor pool of unskilled labor, favorable labor laws, and excellent transportation options to access something like 60% of the country's population. If you're a company like Salesforce, Google, Facebook, SpaceX, Amgen, Blizzard, Apple, etc. etc. then you want to be in the place where those workers want to live. AKA California. Not Mississippi or Oklahoma or Montana.
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