For those leaving California - Conservatives (Sacramento: crime rate, purchase, property tax)
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There's just too much assumption, inference, myopic political ideology and ego stroking in your post, I just don't have the time to do a point by point rebuttal. Here's what it boils down to:
1)Conservatives want to leave California for A,B,C reasons.
2) They're our OPINIONS.
3) Our opinions don't make us right, they don't make you wrong.
4) We don't care what your reasons for liking California is, we politely disagree.
5) Stop foisting your ideological talking points upon this discussion.
6) This is a discussion about why CONSERVATIVES want to leave California.
7) Start your own post about why you think California is so great. I promise, we don't care and won't hijack it with our political ideology.
8) that is all.
Oh, got it. So you want to live in an echo chamber and listen only to people that agree with you. Enjoy the circlejerk I guess. Way to stifle free speech and other people's opinions though. A+.
So have you actually tried to talk to people in person? Like, not on Facebook or the internet? And I don't mean walking up to a political rally or university speaker that is designed to incite people.
I talk to people fairly often about politics here in CA and have somehow managed to have relatively rational dialogue and normal conversations. But mostly the people I talk to actually don't want to discuss politics in person and would much rather talk about some movie, sporting event, work gossip, or who knows what. So the fact that this has bothered you to such an extreme it has made you want to pack up and move, is honestly very strange to me.
I'm not on FB, I don't do social media. I get my news from all sources, from HuffPo to Breitbart, CNN to Fox. It's up to me to decide what is partisan garbage or the truth.
I don't do rallies, marches, speeches or anything where group think influences rational decision making.
This might surprise you: my closest, life long friends whom I've known since high school are all liberal. Two of them are Sanders socialists, two more are gay and married to their partners. I love them all. You can imagine the discussions we get into. The discussions are just that though. It's a give and take, point counter point discussion. I see validity in some of their views, they see validity in some of mine. We don't shout each other down, or demean. (I would be willing to bet that if all of us here were sitting across from each other in a room that this entire conversation would be a lot less demeaning. There's a certain amount of keyboard Warrior that happens in the isolated bubble of the internet).
I didn't fully realize how conservative I was until about halfway through Obama's presidency, and my views have only become more conservative since. Mostly on fiscal and immigration issues. My first votes after I turned 18 were for Clinton, Gore. But even their politics would seem conservative in today's political climate. Especially since both of them and Obama were for strong immigration laws and a wall (as were Pelosi, Boxer, Schumer and others who now blame Trump for everything)
I changed my political affiliation from Democrat to Republican in 2011/12, the vilification of law enforcement by Obama led the way nationally, the percieved misuse of my tax dollars led the way locally. While I was now technically a Republican who leaned left (RINO), as the father of a teenage girl, it was the murders of Kate Steinle and Mollie Tibbets that fully solidified my position on immigration in this country, and simultaneously broke whatever last connection I had to the DNC. While I'm sympathetic to the plight of immigrants, we are a nation of laws and without laws we are nothing. This state and our elected officials are flaunting our immigration laws and that's something I can't get behind.
So, I and my wife feel like we're on an island.We've lived here our whole lives, we own a home, we have great friends, our daughter has a great School, but the elected officials and the decisions that they make don't represent us, and I don't think they ever will as this state is only going to go more left. Maybe to the point where the AOC's of the world make Newsom look like Alex Jones and tax rates become 40%.
That's the long and the short of it.
I prefer not to discuss politics myself. I wasn't planning on talking politics on this thread, I simply wanted to voice my opinion on why we wanted to leave. You can see how this thread has devolved though, it's emblematic of where we are as a nation. I much prefer to talk about sports. Speaking of, if Jimmy Garoppolo can manage to stop getting laid out by Defenders he might survive to the end of the season, and the Niners might make a good run into the post season.
First of all, I’m not a “lib”. My by-line is “ ideologies are lousy excuses for lazy intellects” ... and that includes liberalism. You are blinded by your allegiance to conservative ideology. I take positions based on scientific and historical foundations. When I express observations supporting a scientifically buttressed position that happens shared by liberals, I am attacked as a “lib” by conservatives. When I share positions generally regarded as conservative (such as border controls, severe immigration restrictions, shutting down welfare, eliminating birthright citizenship even for children of American parents ... and others), conservative posters say zip.
Second: the OP here, despite his disingenuous statements about not wanting to create a political bashing thread, himself made an absurd ideological political statement condemning “liberals”, generalized. ‘Effing hilarious. I called him on it by pointing to the obvious, which is historically documented in amazing quantity of hypocrisy.
Third: “the least tolerant people in America” are: all kinds of folks from under every rock a cheap, characterless, lazy, weak ideologue could hide - regardless of liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism, or independent claim. No-one, as demonstrated by even the OP here, can claim their ideology free of stupid intolerance.
Fourth: the last paragraph you wrote is the biggest piece of hypocrisy yet. What a laugh.
I feel your pain. I get yelled at by both sides of the aisle as well because they're so hellbent on whatever the latest propagandists garbage thats being blasted from their television they can't even take the time to have a thoughtful conversation about the issues.
I'm in Illinois now and we have the same phenomenon... the Chicago area is more populous than the rest of the state combined and is Democratic, and the downstate areas are more Republican. The whole state is losing people, but the downstate areas are losing people at a faster rate. One big difference with California is that we have a recent history of electing Republicans (including the last governor) so there isn't as much of a feeling of being unrepresented downstate. In the 2018 election though, there was a reaction to Trump which gave the Democrats a sweep of the legislature and the governor's office. A similar thing happened in New York. So we have this trend of polarization all over the US which seems to be self-perpetuating... as the nation polarizes people in the minority party tend to move to where they're in the majority. Not sure what can be done about this. The Jefferson state idea is amusing but I can't see that sort of thing ever actually happening.
When someone broaches the subject of abolishing the Electoral College I ask them, do you really think it's fair that California, Illinois, and New York would be able to decide presidential elections by their populations alone? Maybe a little Florida, Colorado and Washington sprinkled in there and 80%of Americans would have no say. If they're honest with themselves, the answer is no. But there's the hypocrisy test.
I don't know what the answer is, I just know California is facing an uncertain future.
When someone broaches the subject of abolishing the Electoral College I ask them, do you really think it's fair that California, Illinois, and New York would be able to decide presidential elections by their populations alone? Maybe a little Florida, Colorado and Washington sprinkled in there and 80%of Americans would have no say. If they're honest with themselves, the answer is no. But there's the hypocrisy test.
I don't know what the answer is, I just know California is facing an uncertain future.
Conversely: do you really think it’s fair that a minority of voters in rural states get to decide?
The entire planet, including our species, is facing an uncertain future.
Know why?:
Because of ... Ideologically bound homo sapiens who indulge in fantasies not supported by scientific realities.
There's 30% on each side of the political aisle that just have their feet stuck in the sand and no matter what sort of reasoning or facts you throw in their face they're just not going to budge. And then there's the 40% in the middle. That's the 40% that politicians fight over. Even though I am conservative, I am not a Trumper, in fact, I would just as soon vote for Tulsi Gabbard over Trump...if the DNC wasn't railroading her.
Agree... we recently watched an interview with her on the Rubin Report, and she seems very reasonable.
Regardless of which state we end up in we're always going to be around people on the opposite spectrum of whatever topic is discussed.
True. I'd be fine in an area that "leaned" one way or the other, just don't want to be completely saturated by and extreme side. Saying that, I could see ourselves living among LDS. Lived in a neighborhood that had a significant number and I'd see them riding along on their bikes and occasionally I'd get a knock on my door, and sensed no hostility if I said no thank you and in general, found them to be swell neighbors. Hubs and I have our own lives and no kiddos at home so our feelings wouldn't be hurt if we weren't invited to their events. No big deal.
Now, I might not change you, and you might not change me, but the important thing is rational dialogue. And that is something that is just not existing in this country right now. Especially in California.
Sadly true, especially on the internet and nasty Twitter. I find in real life, it's easier to have a conversation. If they're irrational, nasty and hostile I don't waste me time.
Good luck to you and your husband.
Thanks! He's been with the same company for a while now and while there was talk about letting folks work remote a while back, the idea was shut down because of company changes in upper management. However, recently, the issue is being brought up again. He works in IT and certainly skilled enough to get a job with a different company, but he really loves what he does so we'd rather stick with it and go remote. We'd just need to be careful of where, because if things were to go pear shaped, he'd need to be in an area where he could find a job.
Tulsi Gabbard has Been the only Democratic candidate to come on any show that doesn't lean to the left. Her interview with Ruben was great. Her interviews with Tucker Carlson have been good as well. She's not afraid to stand behind her positions, likewise, she's not afraid to call out that wolf in sheep's clothing, Kamala Harris for her lies and opportunism. Which is why I think she's being railroaded by the DNC. She called out one of their stars and they're not going to allow her to go any further.
If you're looking for a place that doesn't lean too far to one side or the other have you considered Montana? It seems to be a fairly decent mix of ideas, more so on the west side of the state rather than the east side. Missoula, Bozeman, Kalispell, and Billings seemed to have a fairly good mix of politics.
Idaho and Wyoming lean to the right more so, however I think you'd find a more decent mix of ideologies in one of those three states then say, Alabama or Missouri. Eastern Washington is the opposite of the Puget Sound area, so that's an idea.
Seriously, you say this with Trump in office? LOL, again thank you!
I don't know how people can seriously believe either candidate was anything but thoroughly corrupt and that maybe a large percentage of Trump voters did so because they thought he was the lesser of two evils. Somehow, it's like if you vote for a candidate these days, it means you love them and endorse everything they say No. It's more like you have to hold your nose and wonder why you're even bothering.
If people can't even see how horribly corrupt our political system is...that the rot has completely infested both political parties...and has been there for many decades, then I don't know what to say.
And here we are, just as the elite wants us. Fighting with each other about which brand of corruption is "better". Divide and conquer (aka divide & rule over). They've got us right where they want us.
How can we be so willfully blind as to not see it? I think maybe many partisan shills are afraid. Or they enjoy feeling superior. It's at least partly because since the 1960s, more and more people have moved to areas where others think just like them--no direct challenges to their thinking. We can't relate to anyone else's thinking on anything but our own.
In any case, it's attitudes like the above (regardless of which party) that lead to conflict and violence. And it's Exhibit A for why I don't want to be living in a populated area much longer.
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I find in real life, it's easier to have a conversation. If they're irrational, nasty and hostile I don't waste me time. 
No. It's more like you have to hold your nose and wonder why you're even bothering. 
