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Old 05-19-2020, 07:08 AM
 
6,675 posts, read 4,274,941 times
Reputation: 8441

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I think that most of what California is doing is based on science. not pressure to be like some other state.
It doesn’t look like it’s based on science. While I realize this is a fluid situation, he changes timetables without explanation. First he said to reopen, there couldn’t be any deaths in 14 days. The more populous counties started screaming that was an impossible goal to meet. All of a sudden that requirement is dropped. It sure looks likes pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Georgia governor forced to apologize for releasing fake numbers on infections:
https://americanindependent.com/bria...rnor-covid-19/

Georgia’s coronavirus data made reopening look safe. The numbers were a lie:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/stor...ata-brian-kemp

GA Gov Brian Kemp apologizes after state Health Department chart wrongly shows downward trend in COVID-19 infections:
https://www.alternet.org/2020/05/its...19-infections/
LA Times opinion? Other liberal new sources? American Independent, which has a banner asking people to support “progressive journalism”. What the hell is progressive journalism? I thought journalists were supposed to report facts, not push an agenda. Could you find any more biased websites?

 
Old 05-19-2020, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
Reputation: 34039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
It doesn’t look like it’s based on science. While I realize this is a fluid situation, he changes timetables without explanation. First he said to reopen, there couldn’t be any deaths in 14 days. The more populous counties started screaming that was an impossible goal to meet. All of a sudden that requirement is dropped. It sure looks likes pressure.
It's arguable either way though, isn't it? So unless we were flies on the wall when the changes were discussed we'll never know for sure. I know that head of the county health department in Sacramento was upset he felt that keeping businesses from opening because of nursing home deaths doesn't make much sense (something I agree with)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
LA Times opinion? Other liberal new sources? American Independent, which has a banner asking people to support “progressive journalism”. What the hell is progressive journalism? I thought journalists were supposed to report facts, not push an agenda. Could you find any more biased websites?
Mike it's true, it really happened. The question is whether or not it was intentional. What someone did was set up the x axis to reflect lower number of cases rather than by date. Most people say that couldn't have been accidental but that's not for me to decide. Here's a blog in which it's explained pretty well. You can hunt down sources in whatever you consider as a 'trusted source', Georgia Department of Health’s master class on misinforming with statistics - The Adventures of Accordion Guy in the 21st Century
 
Old 05-19-2020, 07:46 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,719 posts, read 26,782,723 times
Reputation: 24785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
Could you find any more biased websites?
Check the Georgia Department of Public Health's website (although now they've apparently fixed the figures). Those articles are simply commenting on the errors made.
 
Old 05-19-2020, 08:12 AM
 
6,675 posts, read 4,274,941 times
Reputation: 8441
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
It's arguable either way though, isn't it? So unless we were flies on the wall when the changes were discussed we'll never know for sure. I know that head of the county health department in Sacramento was upset he felt that keeping businesses from opening because of nursing home deaths doesn't make much sense (something I agree with)

Mike it's true, it really happened. The question is whether or not it was intentional. What someone did was set up the x axis to reflect lower number of cases rather than by date. Most people say that couldn't have been accidental but that's not for me to decide. Here's a blog in which it's explained pretty well. You can hunt down sources in whatever you consider as a 'trusted source', Georgia Department of Health’s master class on misinforming with statistics - The Adventures of Accordion Guy in the 21st Century
As far as why changes were made, it is unclear and he could have explained it better. But that’s been the pattern. He changes things without any rationale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Check the Georgia Department of Public Health's website (although now they've apparently fixed the figures). Those articles are simply commenting on the errors made.
I’ll look into it, but what you posted before was the equivalent of someone on the far right posting an opinion piece from Breitbart. There simply no credibility.

Edit: Here’s an article that says Abrams claimed the cases went up 40% since reopening and it’s not true.

“Boston University epidemiologist Eleanor Murray emphasized that the impact of reopening business life in Georgia won’t be clear for some time.

"There could be up to a month or more delay between when a case is reported and when the infection was transmitted," Murray said. "This makes it very difficult to say whether cases are from before or after opening, especially in the first few weeks."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wra...%3fversion=amp

Last edited by Mike930; 05-19-2020 at 08:21 AM.. Reason: Additional info
 
Old 05-19-2020, 08:22 AM
 
Location: On the water.
21,727 posts, read 16,331,178 times
Reputation: 19809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
... I’ll look into it, but what you posted before was the equivalent of someone on the far right posting an opinion piece from Breitbart. There simply no credibility.

Georgia apologizes over 'processing error' after accusations officials were manipulating coronavirus case counts
https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-h...ocessing-error
 
Old 05-19-2020, 08:24 AM
 
3,149 posts, read 2,696,046 times
Reputation: 11965
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
It's arguable either way though, isn't it? So unless we were flies on the wall when the changes were discussed we'll never know for sure. I know that head of the county health department in Sacramento was upset he felt that keeping businesses from opening because of nursing home deaths doesn't make much sense
Where's the data? Where's the science?

We shouldn't have to be flies on the wall. It would be easy to link the decisions to the data driving them. A simple "More Information" link on the State's COVID-19 websites could link each decision to the study or data that drives it.

No sunbathing: Link to a study showing that standing still in someone's outdoor viral plume resulted in virus transmission.

Safe to open restaurants: Link to a contact tracing of 1000 cases that shows only 2% of virus cases came from restaurant transmission.

Saying a decision is "science-based" does not make it so. The fact that we are not being provided with the data driving these decisions indicates that there is no data driving these decisions. Or, that they don't want us to see the data because it is political and economic, and not virlogical data that is driving the decisions.

I have zero confidence that any of these decisions are data-driven. They could be. Taiwan traced every single one of their cases and discovered that nearly every case of in-country transmission came from close indoor quarters (1-2% had unknown origins) with an infected person. Then they tailored their restrictions and regulations to that data.

We've had over 2 months of lockdown. We have reams of data from around the world. Where is our army of contact tracers? Hell, where is the data from the contact tracers we already have? Where is even a single cited study justifying any of these decisions? They may exist, but the fact that Sacramento is not publishing them makes me think that they don't and they're just making **** up as they go along.

That doesn't inspire confidence, and is not going to get me into the restaurants or businesses, open or not.
 
Old 05-19-2020, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,839 posts, read 26,242,918 times
Reputation: 34039
Quote:
Originally Posted by wac_432 View Post
Where's the data? Where's the science?

We shouldn't have to be flies on the wall. It would be easy to link the decisions to the data driving them. A simple "More Information" link on the State's COVID-19 websites could link each decision to the study or data that drives it.

No sunbathing: Link to a study showing that standing still in someone's outdoor viral plume resulted in virus transmission.

Safe to open restaurants: Link to a contact tracing of 1000 cases that shows only 2% of virus cases came from restaurant transmission.

Saying a decision is "science-based" does not make it so. The fact that we are not being provided with the data driving these decisions indicates that there is no data driving these decisions. Or, that they don't want us to see the data because it is political and economic, and not virlogical data that is driving the decisions.

I have zero confidence that any of these decisions are data-driven. They could be. Taiwan traced every single one of their cases and discovered that nearly every case of in-country transmission came from close indoor quarters (1-2% had unknown origins) with an infected person. Then they tailored their restrictions and regulations to that data.

We've had over 2 months of lockdown. We have reams of data from around the world. Where is our army of contact tracers? Hell, where is the data from the contact tracers we already have? Where is even a single cited study justifying any of these decisions? They may exist, but the fact that Sacramento is not publishing them makes me think that they don't and they're just making **** up as they go along.

That doesn't inspire confidence, and is not going to get me into the restaurants or businesses, open or not.
Just one question, what is your source for this?
Quote:
Link to a contact tracing of 1000 cases that shows only 2% of virus cases came from restaurant transmission.
 
Old 05-19-2020, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Sylmar, a part of Los Angeles
8,338 posts, read 6,421,491 times
Reputation: 17452
Twice in fairly recent history we have had nearly as bad viruses and no media hysteria, life went on as usual, no shutdown.
 
Old 05-19-2020, 08:56 AM
 
6,675 posts, read 4,274,941 times
Reputation: 8441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Georgia apologizes over 'processing error' after accusations officials were manipulating coronavirus case counts
https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-h...ocessing-error
Again, maybe, but according to that Boston U doctor, it’s too early to tell if the reopening caused an increase. I’m certainly not listening to that train wreck Stacy Abrams.
 
Old 05-19-2020, 09:02 AM
 
Location: On the water.
21,727 posts, read 16,331,178 times
Reputation: 19809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
Again, maybe, but according to that Boston U doctor, it’s too early to tell if the reopening caused an increase. I’m certainly not listening to that train wreck Stacy Abrams.
I wasn’t commenting on the reopening issue ... just supplying verification of coverage by all media sides of the Georgia statistics faux-pas ... in this case FOX News.

Stacy Abrams? Lol. Watch that lady ascend in coming years. She is not to be taken lightly. My comments are not to be taken as an endorsement ... just an advisory re: judging her a train wreck.
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