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Old 07-07-2020, 09:59 PM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
6,616 posts, read 4,885,622 times
Reputation: 3601

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No-vaccine herd immunity is wishful thinking and probably doesn't work for any virus. There is no way out until the medical community comes up with something very effective or my harsh enforcement private-gathering strategy is employed.
https://www.city-data.com/forum/los-...atherings.html
For good measure, throw in mandatory, monitored confinement for careless party visitors until they test negative (or wait weeks if they refuse testing).

Politicians can sell that as better than frequent lockdowns, which it is. However, I think for the next few weeks, there are other priorities, including slowing the spread in public and semi-public locations and showing that citizens aren't cooperating enough.

 
Old 07-08-2020, 01:44 AM
 
Location: San Diego Native
4,433 posts, read 2,454,727 times
Reputation: 4809
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen View Post
No-vaccine herd immunity is wishful thinking and probably doesn't work for any virus. There is no way out until the medical community comes up with something very effective or my harsh enforcement private-gathering strategy is employed.
https://www.city-data.com/forum/los-...atherings.html
For good measure, throw in mandatory, monitored confinement for careless party visitors until they test negative (or wait weeks if they refuse testing).

Why not just summary execution for any and all persons who leave a state-approved isolation bubble?
 
Old 07-08-2020, 01:53 AM
 
Location: San Diego Native
4,433 posts, read 2,454,727 times
Reputation: 4809
I will say that since the state mask order came down, compliance here is way up. And we've had our own version for months. Some how it must seem more official coming from Sac. Signage has gotten bigger and more prominent in all the places I visit too, and I'm out a lot because I do errands for neighbors, etc. who don't leave home.


Meanwhile, some poor girl gets assaulted at a McDonalds in Oakland because management is foisting mask-enforcer duties on their staff.
 
Old 07-08-2020, 02:02 AM
 
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,667,720 times
Reputation: 14049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
And again, even the CDC doesn’t say you need to wear a mask while exercising. If fact, it sounds like he was doing the right thing.

“People who are engaged in high intensity activities, like running, may not be able to wear a cloth face covering if it causes difficulty breathing. If unable to wear a cloth face covering, consider conducting the activity in a location with greater ventilation and air exchange (for instance, outdoors versus indoors) and where it is possible to maintain physical distance from others.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html
That last past was not being observed. The guy was on the sidewalk, running past hedges potentially obfuscating the presence of others.
 
Old 07-08-2020, 06:17 AM
 
5,381 posts, read 8,691,467 times
Reputation: 4550
This has to be especially distressing for those churchgoers who tried to abide by current COVID-19 health safety guidelines:

Churches Were Eager to Reopen. Now They Are a Major Source of Coronavirus Cases.

The virus has infiltrated Sunday services, church meetings and youth camps. More than 650 cases have been linked to reopened religious facilities.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/u...gtype=Homepage
Quote:
PENDLETON, Ore. — Weeks after President Trump demanded that America’s shuttered houses of worship be allowed to reopen, new outbreaks of the coronavirus are surging through churches across the country where services have resumed.

The virus has infiltrated Sunday sermons, meetings of ministers and Christian youth camps in Colorado and Missouri. It has struck churches that reopened cautiously with face masks and social distancing in the pews, as well as some that defied lockdowns and refused to heed new limits on numbers of worshipers.

Pastors and their families have tested positive, as have church ushers, front-door greeters and hundreds of churchgoers. In Texas, about 50 people contracted the virus after a pastor told congregants they could once again hug one another. In Florida, a teenage girl died last month after attending a youth party at her church.

More than 650 coronavirus cases have been linked to nearly 40 churches and religious events across the United States since the beginning of the pandemic, with many of them erupting over the last month as Americans resumed their pre-pandemic activities, according to a New York Times database.
Quote:
But now, as the virus rages through Texas, Arizona and other evangelical bastions of the South and West, some churches that fought to reopen are being forced to close again and grapple with whether it is even possible to worship together safely.

“Our churches have followed protocols — masks, go in one door and out the other, social distancing,” said Cynthia Fierro Harvey, a bishop with the United Methodist Church in Louisiana, where three churches closed again over the last week. “And still people have tested positive.”

Last edited by pacific2; 07-08-2020 at 06:27 AM..
 
Old 07-08-2020, 07:23 AM
 
6,675 posts, read 4,280,482 times
Reputation: 8441
Quote:
Originally Posted by joosoon View Post
Why not just summary execution for any and all persons who leave a state-approved isolation bubble?
They could leave the bodies out as a warning to others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat View Post
That last past was not being observed. The guy was on the sidewalk, running past hedges potentially obfuscating the presence of others.
You’re joking right? So people shouldn’t be exercising without a mask because people may be hiding in or behind the bushes? Are they lying in wait so they can surprise the mask less? Sorry, but they’re following guidelines. I do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pacific2 View Post
This has to be especially distressing for those churchgoers who tried to abide by current COVID-19 health safety guidelines:

Churches Were Eager to Reopen. Now They Are a Major Source of Coronavirus Cases.

The virus has infiltrated Sunday services, church meetings and youth camps. More than 650 cases have been linked to reopened religious facilities.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/u...gtype=Homepage
Yeah that’s a problem. Maybe the churchgoers should disguise the services as a protest so the virus will be confused and ignore them.
 
Old 07-08-2020, 08:57 AM
 
Location: On the water.
21,741 posts, read 16,361,136 times
Reputation: 19831
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
What the heck?! Of course there is nothing sentient about it. Obviously, virus mutations that kill their host quickly don't survive as well as mutations that keep the host alive longer and can therefore infect a greater number of hosts. This is the theory behind natural selection in all species--the ones that survive best become dominant; the others become rare or die out. If you read into this an implication that viruses are sentient, that is your problem, not mine.

And of course cancers are different from viruses. Cancer isn't contagious and isn't a separate entity that needs to continually find new hosts in order to survive. It's just defective cells in a person's own body.
Ah. Where to start?
1. I agreed: viruses are not sentient. My comment that they “figure out what works” was framed as “figure out” meaning exactly as you say about evolution / natural selection: trial and error. There are no thoughts to the process. It is accidental success and failure that results in continuation. ... not sure how you misinterpreted my comment on that.

2. Cancers are not viruses ... also true. However, not true that viruses don’t cause cancers. Some do:
Quote:
16% of Cancers Are Caused by Viruses or Bacteria

... Strictly speaking, cancer is not contagious. But a fair number of cancers are clearly caused by viral or bacterial infections: lymphomas can be triggered by the Epstein-Barr virus, which also causes mononucleosis. Liver cancers can be caused by Hepatitis B and C. Cervical cancers can be caused by human papillomavirus, the major reason behind the development of a vaccine against it. For some of these cancers, nearly 100% of the cases have an infectious link---when researchers check to see if a virus or bacterium is working in the tumor or has left signs of its presence in a patient's blood, the answer is nearly always yes...
https://www.discovermagazine.com/hea...es-or-bacteria
Point being: viruses that cause cancer DO kill their hosts by this cause/effect relationship.

Viruses are simply opportunistic ... like all life forms. They thrive in the moment taking advantage of any venue that is available.

That said, some more examples of viruses that often kill their hosts:
Cholera
Ebola
Rabies
Smallpox
HIV
Rotavirus
Dengue fever
Hantavirus
Lassa
Marburg virus
Measles
Hepatitis

And then there are ‘bacteriophages’. Bacteriophages are viruses that invade bacterial cells, by design, use and kill their bacterial hosts.

What you referred to as viruses tending to evolve into less deadly forms is also observable in nature, of course. What is successful continuance for viruses is transference process. Example: Cholera has no trouble continuing even though it kills its hosts very quickly ... because it is very easily spread by contact: the sick and deceased are handled by caretakers who in turn touch other people and things that more people touch. No problems there.

But, in both cases there’s nothing intentional (sentient) about it.

Last edited by Tulemutt; 07-08-2020 at 09:08 AM..
 
Old 07-08-2020, 10:25 AM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
6,616 posts, read 4,885,622 times
Reputation: 3601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
They could leave the bodies out as a warning to others.
Yeah, sure.

Meanwhile, nobody else has any realistic solutions.

Since any party spot probably should be decontaminated, the government should make hosts pay for that and have the haz-mat teams drive vehicles that boldly say, "Parties spread COVID-19. Don't do it."

If government is shutting businesses (many of which are privately owned), it has the right to forbid large private gatherings for the same public safety reasons. There is no inherent right to privacy.

If there is too much in-home mixing of households in an area, turning street parking into placard parking will eliminate much of it; that might work better than directly putting a lot of energy into breaking up parties. Also, California government should instruct gated communities to be very strict about letting in non-residents.

Last edited by goodheathen; 07-08-2020 at 10:42 AM..
 
Old 07-08-2020, 10:28 AM
 
Location: On the water.
21,741 posts, read 16,361,136 times
Reputation: 19831
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen View Post
Yeah, sure.

Meanwhile, nobody else has any realistic solutions.

Since any party spot probably should be decontaminated, the government should make hosts pay for that and have the haz-mat teams drive vehicles that boldly say, "Parties spread COVID-19. Don't do it."

If government is shutting businesses (many of which are privately owned), it has the right to forbid large private gatherings for the same public safety reasons. There is no inherent right to privacy.
... including you.

No offense, but your obsession with this is nuts.
 
Old 07-08-2020, 10:34 AM
 
6,675 posts, read 4,280,482 times
Reputation: 8441
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheathen View Post
Yeah, sure.

Meanwhile, nobody else has any realistic solutions.

Since any party spot probably should be decontaminated, the government should make hosts pay for that and have the haz-mat teams drive vehicles that boldly say, "Parties spread COVID-19. Don't do it."

If government is shutting businesses (many of which are privately owned), it has the right to forbid large private gatherings for the same public safety reasons. There is no inherent right to privacy.
They’ve already banned private gatherings. It’s unenforceable. You’re not going to get police to run around breaking up birthday parties and bar mitzvahs.

As Tulemutt said, your “ideas” are not realistic.
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