Coronavirus (weekly, conference, house)

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by joosoon

It's been obvious since the last so-called surge. The state's position continues to be that compliance is still too low and that's what drives case numbers up but they've offered zero evidence of this relationship. They need to come up with a better plan and shift gears before the public becomes so jaded by their efforts, that their replacement program is wholesale ignored before it even gets off the ground. All they're doing now is driving up skepticism and crushing everyone's confidence along with everything else.

Have you looked at the countries that have been successful at combating COVID in the Asia Pacific region? They've employed different strategies, some with lockdowns, others with robust testing/contact tracing/isolation. However, the consistency has been high percentages of mask wearers. Masks work and its been proven. And yes, a significant percentage of Californians haven't complied with this, despite all of the other measures taken by the state. I don't love shutdowns either. I miss going out with friends and family and seeing others that I haven't socialized with in months. However, its really the only thing that can be done to somewhat slow the spread when people continue to be reckless in their behavior. Without more stringent penalties/consequences for those that don't wear masks (may not be allowable), what else are we supposed to do?

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Looks like Newsom's request for a stay of execution for his one-man-show was denied. I wonder what the appeal is going to look like if the state didn't even bother to present evidence for the two week delay on the injunction.

Interesting to read the Decision of the Court. Thanks

Considering the election is over, it's moot at this point but he better watch his step. Not everyone in this state wears rose colored glasses when it comes to allowing him to exert his power without question. Furthermore, shame on him for expecting people to adhere to his demands to stay apart when he abused the mandate, himself. But, like most politicians do, they ask forgiveness rather than permission. Seems to be their MO these days. I sure hope he doesn't come down with Covid after that little stunt. That would certainly let the air out of his balloon.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

Have you looked at the countries that have been successful at combating COVID in the Asia Pacific region? They've employed different strategies, some with lockdowns, others with robust testing/contact tracing/isolation. However, the consistency has been high percentages of mask wearers. Masks work and its been proven. And yes, a significant percentage of Californians haven't complied with this, despite all of the other measures taken by the state. I don't love shutdowns either. I miss going out with friends and family and seeing others that I haven't socialized with in months. However, its really the only thing that can be done to somewhat slow the spread when people continue to be reckless in their behavior. Without more stringent penalties/consequences for those that don't wear masks (may not be allowable), what else are we supposed to do?

We don't compare well to any of those Asian nations. I've gone over this before and it's a non-starter for me. As for compliance, if I recall it right, the state has said that it wouldn't have to be at 100% for their protocols to be effective, to 'flatten the curve' and so forth. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they indicated something as low as 70% would suffice. If compliance in this state is actually that low, I think I'd have witnessed it to some degree by now especially since San Diego's mask edict predates California's by a month. I'm not debating that masks work (quite to the contrary) as that would be stupid this late in the game. But the rest of the state's moves have been sloppy and possibly just plain pointless as evidenced by the lack of results from the continuing shutting and reopening of businesses. The effect of that has eroded public confidence to the point that if or when they do figure out what else they're supposed to do, it will be too late and nobody will believe their next great plan.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

Masks work and its been proven. And yes, a significant percentage of Californians haven't complied with this, despite all of the other measures taken by the state. I don't love shutdowns either. I miss going out with friends and family and seeing others that I haven't socialized with in months. However, its really the only thing that can be done to somewhat slow the spread when people continue to be reckless in their behavior. Without more stringent penalties/consequences for those that don't wear masks (may not be allowable), what else are we supposed to do?

Completely agree.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

Interesting to read the Decision of the Court. Thanks

Considering the election is over, it's moot at this point but he better watch his step.

Actually, it's not moot and that's what the real win is about. It was his attempt to change election law that was at the heart of the case, but like a lot of legal decisions, there's a bigger issue hovering over it and that's his inability to make statutory changes as defined by separation of powers. That's why part of the state's weak defense was that they brought in the legislature to try to "fix" it. The judge didn't buy that since the plaintiffs pointed out that the SoS was still referencing the superseded E/O among other things, and the more basic fact that it was never rescinded. It's also really telling that in spite of Newsom's original insistence that he was acting within the cited emergency powers, that he went to the legislature to anyway. Why do that if he doesn't have to? Obviously he saw the writing on the wall and anticipated how the courts would interpret it.

Not everyone in this state wears rose colored glasses when it comes to allowing him to exert his power without question. Furthermore, shame on him for expecting people to adhere to his demands to stay apart when he abused the mandate, himself. But, like most politicians do, they ask forgiveness rather than permission. Seems to be their MO these days. I sure hope he doesn't come down with Covid after that little stunt. That would certainly let the air out of his balloon.

Thankfully, unless by some long shot this is appealed in state supreme court, that balloon is properly deflated.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Completely agree.

Maybe compliance is really low where you're at, I don't know. I won't argue that it's perfect because it's not. But when you look at this as the big numbers game that it is, even if it were roughly 50%, not every one of those who fail to wear a mask are infected or ever become infected. They can't for the figures to work. On the other side of that, people who diligently wear masks and take all the precautions are still getting sick too. Once more, for the figures to work we have to recognize that truth too. But perhaps the biggest flaw in the argument that non-compliance is driving all the cases is that not everyone who is infected and who doesn't take the protocols seriously, is perpetually infected. Infected people can only transmit the virus for a very short period of time and there's no evidence that the same ones are continually getting reinfected with it and spreading it repeatedly. That means that sooner or later, all the scofflaws who don't wear masks AND are infected, are no longer infecting anybody else. When you take all that into consideration, the odds become pretty long that it's simply an issue of non-compliance. There's much more to this. This is where the state needs to start from in formulating a new plan. This isn't March anymore. The projected death toll and flooding of hospitals didn't happen so why are we still working under what's now a dated system meant to address something that never came to be?

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Actually, it's not moot

Moot, meaning the election is over now but for future efforts, it will be significant to see how the Appeal goes.

[Mike930]

Originally Posted by roadwarrior101

Did you even look at the link I sent you? The numbers in CA ARE rising. For this third wave, we were doing ok for about a month, while the upper Midwest started spiking, but we're now starting to join the fray. I get that you say you're not going to change your holiday plans and you are legally allowed to do so. However, I question if this is the right thing to do morally (and yes I also think the politicians were immoral by their hypocrisy). Your actions don't only impact you, but the broader society, as we're likely to see a significant spike in the coming weeks. I get that many others are doing the exact same thing, but I don't think that makes it right.

Also, I did look at the Mayo data, which shows a slight death rate decrease from about 2.8 to 2.4% over the past couple months. However, if you're having cases increase by 5-10 fold, does it really matter? You're still having a massive increase in numbers.

What happened to the flu?

Originally Posted by joosoon

It's been obvious since the last so-called surge. The state's position continues to be that compliance is still too low and that's what drives case numbers up but they've offered zero evidence of this relationship. They need to come up with a better plan and shift gears before the public becomes so jaded by their efforts, that their replacement program is wholesale ignored before it even gets off the ground. All they're doing now is driving up skepticism and crushing everyone's confidence along with everything else.

Color me jaded.

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by Mike930

What happened to the flu?

The flu doesn't cause 250k deaths (COVID probably will be many times of this when done) in a year.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Maybe compliance is really low where you're at

Mask compliance appears high in my little suburb of L.A. However, I'm referring to the virus numbers that keep climbing, both in Los Angeles County and within the state.

Originally Posted by joosoon

when you look at this as the big numbers game that it is, even if it were roughly 50%, not every one of those who fail to wear a mask are infected or ever become infected. They can't for the figures to work. On the other side of that, people who diligently wear masks and take all the precautions are still getting sick too.

Where's the data on that?