Newsom is putting restrictions on churches reopening that aren't on stores (authority, office)

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Mike930

I can’t link the article from San Diego because CD doesn’t like the call letters, but we had one here encouraging the protests. Additionally many others are doing the same.

I’m not even taking about the looting.

People were lambasted when they tried to say “freedom of religion” when the churches were locked down. “You’re selfish!, it’s a deadly virus! How can you be so selfish!”

Now the same people are encouraging or excusing the protests because of “free speech”. If churches and businesses don’t have a right to be open, then they don’t a right to lawful assembly.

How should politicians react? You tell the people the same thing they told the churches. You do virtual protests. It’s a deadly virus, right? They’re selfish for protesting, right? Have them go on social media and stay home.

You can’t have it both ways. If you want to let people protest, fine. Than the rest of us will do as we like, too.

I see your point. I think initially, local officials around the US had hoped optimistically, that people would observe distancing, but that failed, especially with the unexpected addition of outside groups traveling in to pursue their violent agenda. Train wreck.

[Mike930]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

I see your point. I think initially, local officials around the US had hoped optimistically, that people would observe distancing, but that failed, especially with the unexpected addition of outside groups traveling in to pursue their violent agenda. Train wreck.

It is a train wreck. If people were out protesting and condemned for it by authorities, that’s one thing. But when you have those authorities encouraging the protests, there’s no reason why anyone else should listen to or obey any of the restrictions.

[V8 Vega]

You can't sing in church but protesters yelling and chanting thats no problem.

[citizensadvocate]

Its not about people wanting to go to church or house of worships anymore. Its more of the principal of local governments arbitarily interpreting vague state orders based on their own interests at a whelm.
Apparently the Nulla poena sine lege concept disappears in the West since COVID19. When people started getting citations from some overzealous local governments for watching the sun set from legal parking which the state seems to have clarifed its allowed on its website.

Now the western world is more like this
https://fee.org/articles/in-this-cit...is-prohibited/

Interesting article.

Many house or worships decided to close on their own back in March when governments were mum on house of worships. Unlike bars, gyms, entertainment venues, etc. On assumption the curve will pass by April or Easter. Interestingly how Disneyland and amusement parks were explicitly given ok that its not considered a "mass gathering" back in March though they decided to voluntarily close the following week anyways and to reopen on April. However when house of worships tried to carefully reopen under CDC guidelines around Easter, i.e with six foot apart seating or drive ins, as they never planned to stay closed indefinitely and Easter was a big day. Some local governments like LA and SD counties gave them the hammer but other's like Orange County did not. Counties which were once toothless tigers all of a sudden can bully even charter cities under the new regime that gives them power even over incorporated charter cities.

Ironically almost no one is prosecuted for violating Newsom's orders for participating in gathering, rioting, looting, vandalism, etc, yet some where prosecuted for organizing peaceful protests since late Apri. It shows how arbitarily our state and local governments are these days. Though local governments including counties did unprecedented steps of declaring daytime curfews turning store owners and those going about their business into an automatic suspect and authorizing rough police intervention even if they otherwise did nothing wrong, while at the same time cutting off public transit abruptly, not just in big cities either but in suburban areas as well, in places people never thought would go this far, thus shows how local governments are more emboldened to control the population since COVID19.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

Its not about people wanting to go to church or house of worships anymore. Its more of the principal of local governments arbitarily interpreting vague state orders based on their own interests at a whelm.
Apparently the Nulla poena sine lege concept disappears in the West since COVID19. When people started getting citations from some overzealous local governments for watching the sun set from legal parking which the state seems to have clarifed its allowed on its website.

That literally means “no punishment without law” and it's used to describe the legal principle that a criminal defendant may not be convicted for an action that is not prohibited by law. I have not seen or heard of anyone being arrested for a law that doesn't exist - if you know of one please share the information it would make for an interesting discussion.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by V8 Vega

You can't sing in church but protesters yelling and chanting thats no problem.

OMG then sing in the church, who cares?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Mike930

It is a train wreck. If people were out protesting and condemned for it by authorities, that’s one thing. But when you have those authorities encouraging the protests, there’s no reason why anyone else should listen to or obey any of the restrictions.

A fair number of protesters who I saw on TV were wearing masks and I have not heard any 'authority' encourage the protests, but if you're right and they were encouraged to protest, than how do two wrongs make a right?

[citizensadvocate]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

That literally means “no punishment without law” and it's used to describe the legal principle that a criminal defendant may not be convicted for an action that is not prohibited by law. I have not seen or heard of anyone being arrested for a law that doesn't exist - if you know of one please share the information it would make for an interesting discussion.

I hope you are right and all these citations would be overturned or thrown away in the backlogged court system as courts were closed and jails were letting people out for a few months. Thus no one would be convicted for anyone of these tickets. Interesting I learned how a couple was cited if not almost arrested in Santa Cruz under the name of Newsom's order as they were found exercising together while the sun was setting but could not prove that they were married couple. So were families and people returning from long hours of essential work who exercised next to a turnout in front of setting sun overlooking the ocean in Encintas. Many activities that were allowable under the state guidelines were interrupted as violations back in April by some overzealous local officials, police, Sheriffs, or other officers. The guy was death afraid that it could affect his legal immigration status. I be curious what California would say about this as California is normally pro immigrant.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

I hope you are right and all these citations would be overturned or thrown away in the backlogged court system as courts were closed and jails were letting people out for a few months. Thus no one would be convicted for anyone of these tickets. Interesting I learned how a couple was cited if not almost arrested in Santa Cruz under the name of Newsom's order as they were found exercising together while the sun was setting but could not prove that they were married couple. So were families and people returning from long hours of essential work who exercised next to a turnout in front of setting sun overlooking the ocean in Encintas. Many activities that were allowable under the state guidelines were interrupted as violations back in April by some overzealous local officials, police, Sheriffs, or other officers. The guy was death afraid that it could affect his legal immigration status. I be curious what California would say about this as California is normally pro immigrant.

The state may be pro immigrant but that doesn't mean that all public officials or police officer are. But bottom line is, if it's not against the law they can't be prosecuted for it.

[JGC97]

No restrictions apparently on these protest marches so what's the big deal about restricting churches? It's a free for all now and anything goes.