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Old 07-15-2009, 03:22 AM
 
857 posts, read 1,722,741 times
Reputation: 186

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Well I know a lot of my fellow Californians will disagree with me...but it is the liberal/socialist state government and its policies, corruption, and lack of accountability.

It's true there are side issues as well, like it being too easy to get measures on the ballot and voters voting piece meal instead of wholistically. And I know others will say it's Prop 13, which passed in 1978 and limited property taxes. Yet, despite the property tax limitations, California has the 6th highest taxes of any state in the country. So these things are side issues, not the main event.

Basically, the state has had a Democrat controlled legislature for the last 50 years. And any one-party state inevitably becomes corrupt at it's core.

Most moderate/conservative middle income people who got sick of the corruption and bad policies have left. Those who advocate any kind of policies that have even the slightest whiff of being "conservative" are outnumbered by those who think if we just keep doing what we've been doing, we'll get better results in the future (the definition of insanity).

Now the state is dominated by high income yuppie liberals who don't seem to care about the high cost of living/taxes/regulations. It's not hitting them hard enough yet.
And then you have immigrants. The low income immigrants are going to vote for Dems to keep the government largesse flowing. The high income ones still vote for Dems...as immigrants always seem to for some reason I can't understand, as their more conservative value system is what made most of them successful.

I know AZ has had it's share of problems as well. But no state is as dysfunctional as CA.
Some of us are Fiscal Conservatives (Libertarians) / Social Liberals who usually vote Democratic, but we strongly agree with you. Bob Brinker has been talking about the irresponsible Legislature in California at length.

Even Arizona has a dysfunctional system with very high taxes and utility rates. In the small town of Winslow, AZ (70 miles east of Flagstaff), the sales tax is 9.1%. Many AZ cities have Impact Fees on new construction, just like in California. This increases the cost of housing, rents, food, and unemployment.

On the other hand, fortunately you are not a right to work state and have much better workers protections. And, restaurant servers are paid the minimum wage, versus just $2.14/hr + 10% in AZ. So as a social liberal I am for Unions and the minimum wage.

As for rich yuppie liberals, they dominate places like Boulder, Colorado, and love to tax regressively with Carbon taxes for alleged Global Warming, along with Impact Fees for remodeling your house. Stay away from Boulder.

Except at Tea Parties, I have no idea on planet earth where to find people like you and I who are somewhat Libertarian, anti-tax, anti-regulation, free market folks who believe in property rights. Nice to meet you.
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:54 AM
 
191 posts, read 663,050 times
Reputation: 98
I actually would like to stick with the main topic here myself. I am considering menifee(a house for under 200k) which seems to buy something pretty nice but is hard to find one with a pool. Its also hard to actually get one and not just make offers and wait forever. I am also considering Az. around the pheonix area but dont know the suburts too well. I see many great deals under 200k with pools in bigger homes. But having not been there I am not sure I will not hate the heat and miss the california lifestyle I am so used to now. One thing my morgage broker did mention is that taxes are much less in Az. than in Ca. so I can get more house for the money. Being able to swim all year is appealing too. I would like to know more about differences between the states from those who know both places.But I care less about the political aspect and more about raising a child and things to do and just day to day life. Although I hate McCain, I guess I will try to not focus on that when choosing a place to live. Thanks for your help
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:29 PM
 
30,852 posts, read 36,738,377 times
Reputation: 34374
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlaT2 View Post
I would choose Arizona over Riverside County if those were my only choices. I live in Palm Springs area now, and frankly the heat is exactly the same as Phoenix, with not as much stuff to do unless you feel like driving the 91, which I don't, to get to the beach. I actually liked Tucson better than either though. Now I do like Northen San Diego area if that was a choice. If nothern California were in the mix that would be even better. Totally fell in love with Davis, and Sacramento area. Also think Santa Cruz and Monetery look awesome.
I used to live in Tucson and I agree with you on that point

I live in the Bay Area now. The problem with Santa Cruz and Montery Counties is that they are anti business/anti-growth, so they don't have many decent paying jobs, but still have a very high cost of living.
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:39 PM
 
30,852 posts, read 36,738,377 times
Reputation: 34374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lane View Post
Some of us are Fiscal Conservatives (Libertarians) / Social Liberals who usually vote Democratic, but we strongly agree with you. Bob Brinker has been talking about the irresponsible Legislature in California at length.

Even Arizona has a dysfunctional system with very high taxes and utility rates. In the small town of Winslow, AZ (70 miles east of Flagstaff), the sales tax is 9.1%. Many AZ cities have Impact Fees on new construction, just like in California. This increases the cost of housing, rents, food, and unemployment.

On the other hand, fortunately you are not a right to work state and have much better workers protections. And, restaurant servers are paid the minimum wage, versus just $2.14/hr + 10% in AZ. So as a social liberal I am for Unions and the minimum wage.

As for rich yuppie liberals, they dominate places like Boulder, Colorado, and love to tax regressively with Carbon taxes for alleged Global Warming, along with Impact Fees for remodeling your house. Stay away from Boulder.

Except at Tea Parties, I have no idea on planet earth where to find people like you and I who are somewhat Libertarian, anti-tax, anti-regulation, free market folks who believe in property rights. Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you, too. I am severely disappointed with both Republicans and Democrats. But I still view Republicans as the lesser evil. In my way of thinking, I don't really care about social issues if our economy is trashed by taxes/regulations.

As far as unions go, I only half-agree. I do agree that servers in restaurants should get full minimum wage. However, I do question our $8 an hour minimum wage. If we didn't have so many restrictions on building new housing, it would be cheaper to live here, and then the minimum wage wouldn't need to be so high.

However, I work in the public sector. I see the unrealistic expectations of union members in the civil service. Collecting a pension from age 55 is just not financially sustainable when people keep living longer. And the argument that public sector workers get paid less than their counterparts in private industry in order to get those pensions is simply not true in most cases. (Maybe it used to be true, but not any more.)

The worst offenders are police, firefighters, and prison guards. Typically these unions have gotten outsized raises compared with other civil service unions for many years. So there is a lot of corruption going on. And like the Detroit auto unions, the union mentaility is to not make any concessions until an organization is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, and then it's usually to late to do anything.

I agree with you that there are not many like us.
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:47 PM
 
30,852 posts, read 36,738,377 times
Reputation: 34374
Quote:
Originally Posted by firsttimeowner View Post
I actually would like to stick with the main topic here myself. I am considering menifee(a house for under 200k) which seems to buy something pretty nice but is hard to find one with a pool. Its also hard to actually get one and not just make offers and wait forever. I am also considering Az. around the pheonix area but dont know the suburts too well. I see many great deals under 200k with pools in bigger homes. But having not been there I am not sure I will not hate the heat and miss the california lifestyle I am so used to now. One thing my morgage broker did mention is that taxes are much less in Az. than in Ca. so I can get more house for the money. Being able to swim all year is appealing too. I would like to know more about differences between the states from those who know both places.But I care less about the political aspect and more about raising a child and things to do and just day to day life. Although I hate McCain, I guess I will try to not focus on that when choosing a place to live. Thanks for your help
I lived in AZ in the late 80s and early 90s. It seemed to me that the Phoenix area, in particular, very much mimics the 'California lifestyle'.

You can probably swim year round in either place. I think winter temperatures in Phoenix are about the same as they are in Riverside, although Phoenix is a good 10-15 degrees hotter in summer. The silver lining is that Phoenix, while not having pristine air, still has a lot less smog than Riveside/San Bernardino area.
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Old 07-17-2009, 02:46 PM
 
Location: On the dark side of the Moon
9,930 posts, read 13,884,350 times
Reputation: 9173
If it weren't for the nearby beach and the smog, you would hardly be able to tell CA from Phoenix in some areas. Except for the heat! What about a suburb farther away from a bigger place? There is corruption in every county, city, state I ever lived in. Just more people talking about it, because now it's hitting home for a lot of us(middle America).
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 41,985,296 times
Reputation: 3861
If California had fewer people and was willing to run off the illegal aliens; I would actually consider living there again.

That stated; having lived in both places---------Phx, even with its crowding wins hands down

In all fairness; I vastly prefer the enclaves platted prior to WW II with their grid street systems vs. the hierarchy crap so prevalent today.
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 41,985,296 times
Reputation: 3861
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquanimator View Post
California is a state of mind!
Arizona is just a state.

It's like comparing a Ferrari and a Hyundai.

What matters is what type of driver are you?
Well; since I do not like low slung sports cars------------a Hyundai wins hands down. The Genesis is quite a sedan
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:23 PM
 
191 posts, read 663,050 times
Reputation: 98
But does pheonix have hill mountains and valleys like you see in Riverside and in San Diego?
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:31 PM
 
730 posts, read 1,908,754 times
Reputation: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by firsttimeowner View Post
I am also considering Az. around the pheonix area but dont know the suburts too well.
One of the biggest problems will be driving anywhere else. LOTS of desert to cross in all directions. In So Cal you have a lot of nice territory to drive in as long as you don't head East or North East, far more to see and do as well in So Cal. Mind you I am moving out next month, but I gotta give So Cal is due in the "good" areas.
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