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In trades like construction, where independent contractors are used they are usually required to have business liability insurance for their activities. If just an individual, the general contractor has it. Only when a homeowner hires a "gig" worker is it not required and even then if they know better they require it or do not hire them as they can still suffer liability from the workers actions.
Since Uber and others actually handle the arrangements, they should have liability insurance for any problems since they are directly involved. The workers can be independent, but the company should still carry the insurance.
Interesting though in my experience based on what I hear not all of these gig based companies have coverage ie I heard Grubhub/Instacart which is heavily used during the pandemic doesn't have coverage at all not even liability when food is in the car, which is shocking, others like Doordash and Postmates only have liability coverage when food is being carried but not when taking an order and headed to the restaurant. Uber seems to cover the most including collision and comprehensive. Though for all apps can occur easily which can leave third parties holding the bag, i.e some bicyclist was ran down by an "uber" driver in SF years ago and was denied liability compensation by both Uber's and the drivers insurance coverage due to gaps in coverage as he was taking calls but not accepted a ride nor giving a ride at that time. I am surprised this issue is still overlooked. As we have so many of these disasters waiting to happen. I also learned that workers and customers has almost no rights or protection using these. They can do whatever they decide to you with little if any consequences.
I am hearing that some personal insurance policies bended their rules somewhat to allow full coverage for making any type of deliveries but not rideshare during the pandemic but the info is very obscure(only on some media websites) and there is no clear info whether that is still the case today.
No sooner do many people find a great way to earn extra money when they are on the road the Leftist Democrats move to ruin it. This initiative thwarts them from ruining it.
The sad thing about this proposition is how much statist "sweetener" has been thrown in. But, that's better than wrecking one of the most successful innovations in transportation in decades.
I MUST admit, however, that the rideshare companies had this coming to them. Why? Because they tried to appease the Leftist anti-business Democrats, with “Woke” Leftist virtue signaling. Here are some examples from the Lyft.com website:
I suppose the Lyft corporation thought that by parroting false Leftist platitudes, they would buy themselves some peace and appeal to Leftist hipster types who might use their service. Well, it didn’t work now, did it? The Leftists in the California government still moved to ruin Lyft’s business model. They will only hate you anyway, Lyft Corporation. You had better learn that.
As my father said to me as a boy when I did something wrong or that did not succeed or work out right, “Well, did you learn anything?”
Indeed, Lyft (or Uber, Doordash, Postmates, etc.), did you learn anything? You can’t appease cultural (and economic) Marxists. You had better wise up.
I no longer live in CA, but I'm asking that you all vote for Prop 22. An independent study done at Berkeley has illustrated how this will affect not just the drivers, but all of you who use those services:
*an increased cost for consumers of rideshare services ranging from 25.9% to 100% in some markets – meaning that a typical $15 ride across town would cost between $19 and $30;
*an increased cost for food / grocery delivery services ranging from 35.2% to 100% in some markets – meaning that a typical delivery charge of $12 would cost between $16 and $24;
*a reduction of the customer base served to only those persons residing in the most densely populated areas of the state – meaning little or no service to most Californians living in rural or suburban areas of the state;
*a reduction of service days and times in these urban areas – meaning service availability during peak usage hours only (mostly commute times and weekend entertainment/nightlife periods for rideshare and standard dining times for food delivery);
*and an increase in wait times and a decrease in reliability for customers – meaning an average wait time for rideshare of 7 minutes may double to 14 minutes, and average wait time for food/grocery delivery of 40 minutes may double to 1 hour and 20 minutes, or more, except in the most densely populated service areas.
These negative consumer impacts will, of course, have a significant negative impact on drivers. Our analysis indicates that drivers’ average hourly compensation will be reduced from $19.55 per hour today to approximately $14.67 per hour under an employment model.
I have worked for Uber a few times when I was in CA, right before I moved out of state. You all know CA is expensive to live in, and $14.77 absolutely does not cut it. Remember that these are your fellow Californians.
These are students, retirees, moms, people who need a second "job" - low wage workers who need more income can really make a big difference in their life by doing these gig jobs. It can literally lift them up and out of poverty, off of assistance if they are allowed to remain ICs.
As you know, as an IC, you can work for as long as you want (up to 12 hours, Uber does not allow any driver to work more than 12 in a row for safety reasons, just like truckers aren't allowed to drive as much as they want, for safety reasons.) They can work any day, any hours, any time they have the time, they can work, and they want to work. They want to be able to live a normal life, be able to pay the bills, be able to afford an unexpected expense, be able to give their kids more, be able to afford school, be able to make up the difference while in retirement....
As an employee, you are limited. You can only work the days and hours a company says you can work. It's very difficult to make 2, 3, 4 jobs work together. I know this, I've done 4 jobs at a time in my past - it's not easy. As an IC, it is so much easier to do, and as an IC, you tend to make more so you don't have to work 3 or 4 jobs.
These are your neighbors. These may be your friends. These may be your family.
I have no skin in the game, I don't live in CA anymore - but I'm still asking that you please vote for Prop 22. These people want to work as ICs.
As one who has done this, I can tell you that those who complained about $ and no insurance - Uber does offer them a way to be covered with insurance. Uber does pay them decently. You just have to actually accept the jobs instead of sitting in a parking lot somewhere and saying, "Nope, I'm not going to take a job if it's less than $x". I can tell you, because you always run into other fellow gig workers when you do gig work, and you all talk, there are those types who do just that. Those are the ones who complained about not making any money - because they weren't doing anything but rejecting offer after offer.
An extra $5 something an hour goes a very long way - CA says that they care about the working class - then show them. Vote "Yes" on Prop 22.
Interesting though in my experience based on what I hear not all of these gig based companies have coverage ie I heard Grubhub/Instacart which is heavily used during the pandemic doesn't have coverage at all not even liability when food is in the car, which is shocking, others like Doordash and Postmates only have liability coverage when food is being carried but not when taking an order and headed to the restaurant. Uber seems to cover the most including collision and comprehensive. Though for all apps can occur easily which can leave third parties holding the bag, i.e some bicyclist was ran down by an "uber" driver in SF years ago and was denied liability compensation by both Uber's and the drivers insurance coverage due to gaps in coverage as he was taking calls but not accepted a ride nor giving a ride at that time. I am surprised this issue is still overlooked. As we have so many of these disasters waiting to happen. I also learned that workers and customers has almost no rights or protection using these. They can do whatever they decide to you with little if any consequences.
I am hearing that some personal insurance policies bended their rules somewhat to allow full coverage for making any type of deliveries but not rideshare during the pandemic but the info is very obscure(only on some media websites) and there is no clear info whether that is still the case today.
You are an Independent Contractor, so it is your responsibility to have full coverage. You are not employed by any of these app jobs. It is not up to those companies to cover you, the food in your car, or any accident that you get into. You're an IC!
Having said that....
Keep in mind, as an IC, even though insurance rates will go up for you, you will make way more money, making that higher bill actually LESS for you because you have more money in the end if you're an IC as compared to an employee that is limited to when and how long they can work.
The driver is responsible for their insurance, the driver is responsible for the gas, the driver is responsible for the maintenance of their vehicle.
Keep in mind, Uber has many perks for drivers. Good discounts, not lame ones, actual good discounts for drivers who need maintenance, as an example.
Here's something else that no one ever talks about, but I can tell you because I'm looking at my Uber driver app right now. No one ever mentions that in ADDITION to the actual pay for the gig, drivers are also constantly offered incentives that are ridiculously easy to meet. From my own phone, I'll give you some examples of the latest ones in my area:
*Make $12 extra for a 3 trip series. Between the hours of 1 and 3, specific area, specific date. In addition to the pay they were already going to get, Uber is going to give them $12 extra just for accepting 3 trips in a 2 hour span. Do you have any idea how easy it is to accept 3 trips in a 2 hour span? That $12 pays for the gas. (In my area - I see these for my area, in CA, the $ incentive will be higher.)
Another $12 extra. A $10 extra. $55 for 20 trips (or $65 if you go beyond that and make 20 trips)- ends on Monday at 4am, which means that the driver has an entire weekend to do 20 - 30 trips. EASY to do. Another $12 extra, a $10.50 extra, and an extra $5.50 for 3 trips in a 12 hour time period. All the ones mentioned where I just said "extra", have the same parameters as in the paragraph above, introducing you to these extras.
Some of these overlap, meaning you can be doing your 3 trips for an extra $12, and those 3 will count towards your 20 trips. The $10 one overlaps (these are all for today and this weekend in my area), others overlap - in ADDITION to what you would have normally made, you can stack on a good $100 on top of that JUST for driving like you would have done, anyway.
This is Uber handing you money for doing trips that you were already getting paid for. For most of those, the gas is essentially covered BY Uber.
Health insurance - Uber does offer a way for drivers to be covered.
They even have offers for furthering your education, with some help from Uber. Right now, they are offering classes in IT for free online, through another company, because of Uber. In fact, the only way you'll pay jack all is if you land a job bringing in over $X amount (depends on your area what that amount is - but it's a decent starting point for many), then you would pay back the classes for 2 years at $164/month. Again, only if you land a job doing what you just learned from these classes. Even after you have landed that job, you still get free services through the company that Uber has grouped with to offer this to their drivers.
No one ever talks about that.
In addition to all of the extra $ perks, they also give points. The more points you accumulate during a specific time frame (about 4 months), the more you get paid. And, to help you reach that goal, they often offer extra points. For example, right now, for every trip you make, instead of 1 point, you get 3. Once you've reached 160 points, (I think it is), which is not hard to rack up, takes very little time, especially when they offer you 3 points per trip, you get paid way more.
Here's the thing, it's not just ride share, it's also Uber Eats that you'll get all of these things I've been talking about. You can accomplish 53 trips at 3 points a piece in a single week, easily. That means that for most of that 4 months, you're getting a lot more for each trip you do, in addition to their "extra $ within this time frame".
No one ever talks about that. The study didn't even consider that. The study only considered regular every day working, no extras, no points, no incentives at all.
A driver with Uber can make, easily, $4000 a month in CA. Easily, as an IC, if they're not sitting in a parking lot whining about having to pay for their own insurance and gas and maintenance. If they actually did the work, they would see that they can make decent money - enough to rent an apartment in Ventura county by themselves! if they wanted, and still have enough to eat and pay bills. (I know the prices there, I lived there.)
If they are forced to become employees:
- The first thing that will happen is that a lot of drivers will no longer have access to any type of income through any of these gig jobs because the companies are not going to hire them all as employees. So, without Prop 22, a lot of people are going to lose income - which is not what they need right now.
- The second thing that will happen is that all of those incentives will go away. No more "free" money for just doing what you normally do. Sure, maybe they'll have bonuses here and there, and you'll get taxed 33% for each of those, but it will not be like it is now, where these people could essentially make this their only job, or it could be a very good paying secondary income. Not so as an employee, because employees are limited.
In addition to all of that, something else that no one ever wants to talk about:
Taxes.
I've done IC driving long before Uber ever came out. I did it as recently as in 2014 for the federal government. I was not "employed", I did work for them. I was Independent. Same with a job I had years ago. I did deliveries with my car but it was equipment, lots of plane parts, etc. I was an IC. I know how these taxes work.
These days, unlike back when I first did deliveries of plane parts and had to keep an actual ledger that I wrote in every single time I drove, and every time I stopped, personal or business, mileage, gas receipts for proof, etc, we now have apps that do that for us.
Here's what happens: as an IC, you don't pay taxes throughout the year. You could do it quarterly if you wanted to, but you don't "have" to.
You are allowed, by the IRS, to write off your business miles. (That's why you have to keep very meticulous records of every single mile you've driven.) The apps mean you no longer have to keep that hand written ledger. In addition, most of the app jobs send you an email telling you of the day's earnings, and then the week's earnings. Included in that are the "business miles" you drove while doing the trips.
So, what happens is that you do your taxes, the IRS allows you to deduct those business miles, and it usually works out that the deduction is far better for you than how much you actually paid in gas. In some areas, like CA, you might break even, because your "business expenses" (which the IRS considers you a business if you're an IC), deplete the tax you were to pay to them. That's another perk.
Yes, you put a lot of miles on your car, you spent a lot of money on gas and maintenance, and cleaning of your car for rideshare...yes, it's a lot. But, at the end of the year, those miles help you.
You don't get that when you're an employee who is being limited.
No one ever talks about any of that, they just talk about insurance. There's far more than these gig apps offer their drivers. Some of those apps guarantee an hourly amount as long as you keep your schedule an accept everything they give you, but you're not an employee, you're an IC, you're under no obligation to accept everything, or not drop parts of your schedule. It just means you don't get the guarantee.
Nonetheless, you don't even need that guarantee because if you actually work, you're going to make more per hour, anyway.
You are an Independent Contractor, so it is your responsibility to have full coverage. You are not employed by any of these app jobs. It is not up to those companies to cover you, the food in your car, or any accident that you get into. You're an IC!
Having said that....
Keep in mind, as an IC, even though insurance rates will go up for you, you will make way more money, making that higher bill actually LESS for you because you have more money in the end if you're an IC as compared to an employee that is limited to when and how long they can work.
The driver is responsible for their insurance, the driver is responsible for the gas, the driver is responsible for the maintenance of their vehicle.
Keep in mind, Uber has many perks for drivers. Good discounts, not lame ones, actual good discounts for drivers who need maintenance, as an example.
Here's something else that no one ever talks about, but I can tell you because I'm looking at my Uber driver app right now. No one ever mentions that in ADDITION to the actual pay for the gig, drivers are also constantly offered incentives that are ridiculously easy to meet. From my own phone, I'll give you some examples of the latest ones in my area:
*Make $12 extra for a 3 trip series. Between the hours of 1 and 3, specific area, specific date. In addition to the pay they were already going to get, Uber is going to give them $12 extra just for accepting 3 trips in a 2 hour span. Do you have any idea how easy it is to accept 3 trips in a 2 hour span? That $12 pays for the gas. (In my area - I see these for my area, in CA, the $ incentive will be higher.)
Another $12 extra. A $10 extra. $55 for 20 trips (or $65 if you go beyond that and make 20 trips)- ends on Monday at 4am, which means that the driver has an entire weekend to do 20 - 30 trips. EASY to do. Another $12 extra, a $10.50 extra, and an extra $5.50 for 3 trips in a 12 hour time period. All the ones mentioned where I just said "extra", have the same parameters as in the paragraph above, introducing you to these extras.
Some of these overlap, meaning you can be doing your 3 trips for an extra $12, and those 3 will count towards your 20 trips. The $10 one overlaps (these are all for today and this weekend in my area), others overlap - in ADDITION to what you would have normally made, you can stack on a good $100 on top of that JUST for driving like you would have done, anyway.
This is Uber handing you money for doing trips that you were already getting paid for. For most of those, the gas is essentially covered BY Uber.
Health insurance - Uber does offer a way for drivers to be covered.
They even have offers for furthering your education, with some help from Uber. Right now, they are offering classes in IT for free online, through another company, because of Uber. In fact, the only way you'll pay jack all is if you land a job bringing in over $X amount (depends on your area what that amount is - but it's a decent starting point for many), then you would pay back the classes for 2 years at $164/month. Again, only if you land a job doing what you just learned from these classes. Even after you have landed that job, you still get free services through the company that Uber has grouped with to offer this to their drivers.
No one ever talks about that.
In addition to all of the extra $ perks, they also give points. The more points you accumulate during a specific time frame (about 4 months), the more you get paid. And, to help you reach that goal, they often offer extra points. For example, right now, for every trip you make, instead of 1 point, you get 3. Once you've reached 160 points, (I think it is), which is not hard to rack up, takes very little time, especially when they offer you 3 points per trip, you get paid way more.
Here's the thing, it's not just ride share, it's also Uber Eats that you'll get all of these things I've been talking about. You can accomplish 53 trips at 3 points a piece in a single week, easily. That means that for most of that 4 months, you're getting a lot more for each trip you do, in addition to their "extra $ within this time frame".
No one ever talks about that. The study didn't even consider that. The study only considered regular every day working, no extras, no points, no incentives at all.
A driver with Uber can make, easily, $4000 a month in CA. Easily, as an IC, if they're not sitting in a parking lot whining about having to pay for their own insurance and gas and maintenance. If they actually did the work, they would see that they can make decent money - enough to rent an apartment in Ventura county by themselves! if they wanted, and still have enough to eat and pay bills. (I know the prices there, I lived there.)
If they are forced to become employees:
- The first thing that will happen is that a lot of drivers will no longer have access to any type of income through any of these gig jobs because the companies are not going to hire them all as employees. So, without Prop 22, a lot of people are going to lose income - which is not what they need right now.
- The second thing that will happen is that all of those incentives will go away. No more "free" money for just doing what you normally do. Sure, maybe they'll have bonuses here and there, and you'll get taxed 33% for each of those, but it will not be like it is now, where these people could essentially make this their only job, or it could be a very good paying secondary income. Not so as an employee, because employees are limited.
In addition to all of that, something else that no one ever wants to talk about:
Taxes.
I've done IC driving long before Uber ever came out. I did it as recently as in 2014 for the federal government. I was not "employed", I did work for them. I was Independent. Same with a job I had years ago. I did deliveries with my car but it was equipment, lots of plane parts, etc. I was an IC. I know how these taxes work.
These days, unlike back when I first did deliveries of plane parts and had to keep an actual ledger that I wrote in every single time I drove, and every time I stopped, personal or business, mileage, gas receipts for proof, etc, we now have apps that do that for us.
Here's what happens: as an IC, you don't pay taxes throughout the year. You could do it quarterly if you wanted to, but you don't "have" to.
You are allowed, by the IRS, to write off your business miles. (That's why you have to keep very meticulous records of every single mile you've driven.) The apps mean you no longer have to keep that hand written ledger. In addition, most of the app jobs send you an email telling you of the day's earnings, and then the week's earnings. Included in that are the "business miles" you drove while doing the trips.
So, what happens is that you do your taxes, the IRS allows you to deduct those business miles, and it usually works out that the deduction is far better for you than how much you actually paid in gas. In some areas, like CA, you might break even, because your "business expenses" (which the IRS considers you a business if you're an IC), deplete the tax you were to pay to them. That's another perk.
Yes, you put a lot of miles on your car, you spent a lot of money on gas and maintenance, and cleaning of your car for rideshare...yes, it's a lot. But, at the end of the year, those miles help you.
You don't get that when you're an employee who is being limited.
No one ever talks about any of that, they just talk about insurance. There's far more than these gig apps offer their drivers. Some of those apps guarantee an hourly amount as long as you keep your schedule an accept everything they give you, but you're not an employee, you're an IC, you're under no obligation to accept everything, or not drop parts of your schedule. It just means you don't get the guarantee.
Nonetheless, you don't even need that guarantee because if you actually work, you're going to make more per hour, anyway.
Though I be curious what will happen if they are employees?
Can third parties or customers sue the app company should they be injured due to something related to the app?
While we cannot deduct taxes as an employee for car use though doesn't the company have to cover that cost since you are an employee?
Nowadays many app drivers have no money to pay for commercial insurance or to compensate injured parties when things go wrong. it ends up the innocent third party i.e the biker hit by an "uber" in San Francisco who was not carrying or heading to a passenger holding the bag should something happen. There should be a requirement regardless prop 22 that these companies must cover liability at least $1million in all situations in which the personal insurance policies would not cover. Would you want to be that guy who is left holding the bag injured, unable to work, and your property destroyed, because you were denied coverage by both Uber or any other app and the drivers insurance policy and driver who hit you has no means to compensate you? I wouldn't. Nowadays I be more wary of these guys hitting me than of uninsured illegal immigrants hitting me as there are so many of them with shaky coverage out on the road.
Though I be curious what will happen if they are employees?
Can third parties or customers sue the app company should they be injured due to something related to the app?
While we cannot deduct taxes as an employee for car use though doesn't the company have to cover that cost since you are an employee?
Nowadays many app drivers have no money to pay for commercial insurance or to compensate injured parties when things go wrong. it ends up the innocent third party i.e the biker hit by an "uber" in San Francisco who was not carrying or heading to a passenger holding the bag should something happen. There should be a requirement regardless prop 22 that these companies must cover liability at least $1million in all situations in which the personal insurance policies would not cover. Would you want to be that guy who is left holding the bag injured, unable to work, and your property destroyed, because you were denied coverage by both Uber or any other app and the drivers insurance policy and driver who hit you has no means to compensate you? I wouldn't. Nowadays I be more wary of these guys hitting me than of uninsured illegal immigrants hitting me as there are so many of them with shaky coverage out on the road.
The insurance comes out to about 2/3 more than what you might normally pay were you not doing these gig jobs.
Like I said, if you remain an IC, however, you will more than make that up in earnings.
As for employees driving - I don't know, I've never driven for someone as an employee. There are some out there like the the pizza delivery drivers - they're employees. The ones in this area make $10 an hour. All I know is that when you see those jobs, they require you to have insurance - the company doesn't tell you that they are going to pay for it...but, again, I've never delivered pizzas for a company as an employee, so I don't know. Nonetheless, I can make way more than that as an IC, so that extra that I need for the full coverage insurance isn't a big deal. Yes, the app drivers absolutely can afford it.
Even in remote places app drivers are making more than they would at some regular job. Unless someone is not even trying to make money, they are going to make money, and they can afford the insurance. I'm not sure who is telling you that they can't, it's not true. Or maybe these are the types who spend all their money on crap and don't know how to live within their means.
It is not up to the companies to provide that liability. It is up to the drivers.
I have been hit by someone with no insurance - yes, I was injured - I still suffer from those to this very day, but after working with my lawyer by suing, I won.
As an Independent Contractor, YOU are the business. You are self employed. You are responsible for all costs.
The driver in San Francisco who was not carrying nor holding any bag was not officially on Uber's time. Just because you're waiting for a trip to show up for you to accept or reject, you're not officially on Uber's time. The IRS will not count any miles that you drive between trips as "business" miles.
You don't sign up on a schedule when you drive for Uber - so you literally are NOT on Uber's time at any point. You are on your time. You can choose to accept or reject any and everything that they send to you. You are never obligated to take anything.
That hit was on the driver 100% - fully that driver's responsibility. It had absolutely nothing to do with Uber. If that driver did not cover himself correctly, the biker merely had to hire a lawyer and sue the crap out of that driver - which I hope he did, but again, it had nothing at all to do with Uber, so why should they pay for it?
What you're asking for would be like asking the company you work for, at the office, to cover you when you go out to the local fast food place to pick up the food for everyone at lunch - that you all discussed forever via "reply all" emails. That was the exact same status of the driver who hit the biker. He was on his OWN time, the same as you would be regardless if you were getting food for people at the office or not.
Last edited by Three Wolves In Snow; 10-23-2020 at 05:55 PM..
The insurance comes out to about 2/3 more than what you might normally pay were you not doing these gig jobs.
Like I said, if you remain an IC, however, you will more than make that up in earnings.
As for employees driving - I don't know, I've never driven for someone as an employee. There are some out there like the the pizza delivery drivers - they're employees. The ones in this area make $10 an hour. All I know is that when you see those jobs, they require you to have insurance - the company doesn't tell you that they are going to pay for it...but, again, I've never delivered pizzas for a company as an employee, so I don't know. Nonetheless, I can make way more than that as an IC, so that extra that I need for the full coverage insurance isn't a big deal. Yes, the app drivers absolutely can afford it.
Even in remote places app drivers are making more than they would at some regular job. Unless someone is not even trying to make money, they are going to make money, and they can afford the insurance. I'm not sure who is telling you that they can't, it's not true. Or maybe these are the types who spend all their money on crap and don't know how to live within their means.
It is not up to the companies to provide that liability. It is up to the drivers.
I have been hit by someone with no insurance - yes, I was injured - I still suffer from those to this very day, but after working with my lawyer by suing, I won.
As an Independent Contractor, YOU are the business. You are self employed. You are responsible for all costs.
The driver in San Francisco who was not carrying nor holding any bag was not officially on Uber's time. Just because you're waiting for a trip to show up for you to accept or reject, you're not officially on Uber's time. The IRS will not count any miles that you drive between trips as "business" miles.
You don't sign up on a schedule when you drive for Uber - so you literally are NOT on Uber's time at any point. You are on your time. You can choose to accept or reject any and everything that they send to you. You are never obligated to take anything.
That hit was on the driver 100% - fully that driver's responsibility. It had absolutely nothing to do with Uber. If that driver did not cover himself correctly, the biker merely had to hire a lawyer and sue the crap out of that driver - which I hope he did, but again, it had nothing at all to do with Uber, so why should they pay for it?
What you're asking for would be like asking the company you work for, at the office, to cover you when you go out to the local fast food place to pick up the food for everyone at lunch - that you all discussed forever via "reply all" emails. That was the exact same status of the driver who hit the biker. He was on his OWN time, the same as you would be regardless if you were getting food for people at the office or not.
While i have yet to compare other advantages or disadvantages of independent contractors vs employees. I remember a sign waving company changing its ICs to employees but nothing really change much, the human direction waivers still worked on their own schedule but taxes and other fees are deducted. Similar to a Amusement or haunted attraction in which the staff/blackout/actors used to be ICs but changed to employees not much had changed and they can still choose the days/nights they work. But these places are quite difference from Uber and other apps.
Regarding lawsuits Interesting I do remember Dominos pizza getting sued successfully due to crashes involving their delivery drivers.
One thing to remember is that Winning a suit is one thing but if the driver is working paycheck to paycheck to make ends meetwhich is highly likely the case for such gig based drivers making ends meet good luck getting your medical bills paid. No better than being hit by someone working under the table and driving without insurance.
Nevertheless I do wish the state should close the liability gap as well as control the Wild West mentality of these apps to both their workers and customers alike whether they become employees or not. Heaven help you should things go wrong. Flixbus is enough of an example of a nightmare company that I am surprised is allowed to exist in developed countries or any country with well developed consumer protection laws.
I surely do not want to be the one injured by an app based driver whose insurance won’t pay and working paycheck to paycheck to make ends meet and would not be able to cover my medical bills.
While i have yet to compare other advantages or disadvantages of independent contractors vs employees. I remember a sign waving company changing its ICs to employees but nothing really change much, the human direction waivers still worked on their own schedule but taxes and other fees are deducted. Similar to a Amusement or haunted attraction in which the staff/blackout/actors used to be ICs but changed to employees not much had changed and they can still choose the days/nights they work. But these places are quite difference from Uber and other apps.
Regarding lawsuits Interesting I do remember Dominos pizza getting sued successfully due to crashes involving their delivery drivers.
One thing to remember is that Winning a suit is one thing but if the driver is working paycheck to paycheck to make ends meetwhich is highly likely the case for such gig based drivers making ends meet good luck getting your medical bills paid. No better than being hit by someone working under the table and driving without insurance.
Nevertheless I do wish the state should close the liability gap as well as control the Wild West mentality of these apps to both their workers and customers alike whether they become employees or not. Heaven help you should things go wrong. Flixbus is enough of an example of a nightmare company that I am surprised is allowed to exist in developed countries or any country with well developed consumer protection laws.
I surely do not want to be the one injured by an app based driver whose insurance won’t pay and working paycheck to paycheck to make ends meet and would not be able to cover my medical bills.
The "Wild West" mentality is exactly how one can make enough money to live on but still go to school, or still take care of their kids, or still do another job for whatever reason they would do the other job - maybe they want to save up for something big, in the future (as was my case).
ICs have way more flexibility to choose when and how long they are going to work. I used to work for AT&T as an IC, not an employee. Employees are limited to how many hours they can work, what days they can work, they are required to take breaks, etc. As an IC, I didn't have to follow any of that, and for that reason alone, I was able to buy myself a brand new laptop, get a new engine for my car and have it installed, and still pay all of my rent and bills, PLUS had money left over - and I did all of that in 3 months. Because I chose to work my tail off.
Not everyone is cut out for being their "own boss". Not everyone can handle being self employed. It takes a lot of discipline, because you don't have to answer to anyone. Not everyone out there should be their own boss, because they can't handle being able to push themselves to get up, work, and keep working.
There's no reason anyone doing these app gigs can't afford to live, can't afford the insurance, can't afford anything they need, can't save money on the side - no reason at all, unless they aren't disciplined enough to actually do the work.
But the ones who can handle it should not be punished (which is how I see this) because some can't, and want to remain under someone else to toss them some change and insurance their way.
The most successful people are the ones who are disciplined, work hard, and even when they've reached their goal, continue to work hard towards another goal. Those who are not, need their hands held through life by someone telling them what to do.
I don't agree that every single person out there is a good driver for any app job - there are some total morons out there, especially for the app jobs that don't really check anything at all about you when you sign up.
I assure you, however, Uber definitely checks you out. They do a background check, they require proof of your insurance, and you can't have a car older than a certain year. You're not going to get an Uber driver with an old, beat up car - it's not allowed. If they can afford a newer car, they can afford the full coverage insurance.
If you sue someone, your medical bills are not charged until the case is settled. If you win, it comes out of the settlement. I know this, I had medical bills. I didn't put a single cent towards them the whole time we were in arbitration. Once we agreed on a settlement, the medical bills were the first thing that got paid out of that settlement.
I am not usually for excessive regulations but I notice that there are a lot of discrepancy between overregulation in some areas by today's paternalistic politicians but yet turning a blind eye on other issues.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1475571836083576/ I won't recommend Flixbus.com to my worst enemy, I took it once the trip was rough and there was issue with booking in which the app took my money before booking me a ticket and an argument happened between two passengers as they both had the same seat number due to a mistake in the booking system, they ended up calling the police to settle it. Flixbus runs under this model. Other bus companies are closing down where they operate as Flixbus uses this model to keep its rates much lower than even Boltbus and Megabus. Boltbus pulled out of California despite growing consistently for years shortly and adding stops after Flixbus broken into the market.
Though unfortunately the truth is so few people driving for apps would buy commercial insurance which is necessary to be covered at all times. Full coverage personal insurance may not cover you if they found out you are involved with any app driving if its not a commercial policy. Thats why app's insurance kick in, however there are times when apps commercial insurance don't kick in but personal insurance policies still consider you driving commercially. Though it impractical for most as commercial insurance is extremely expensive many times a full coverage personal insurance and your vehicle would be considered a fleet vehicle from then on not a family vehicle. I am not saying all these delivery drivers are cash stripped but good number of these are students trying to find some income or other people to lost their job trying to make ends meet or working other low ended jobs, these people don't have much assets to begin with, good luck trying to seek compensation, I be curious where the money came out of your settlement if that guy had only thousands in his account living paycheck to paycheck. Unfortunately apps don't check if your insurance would actually cover you doing this, any insurance policy clears you.
I heard insurance company allows lenancy for the pandemic though for grocery, medicals, and food deliveries but information is not very clear on it as it only revealed on third party news sources and not the companies themselves. We don't know when if ever they ended such coverage.
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