Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant (Los Angeles, San Diego: 2015, loan, construction)

[Finper]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Heh. Excuse me for pointing out that Bill Gates championed desktop computing and the internet that have brought us the chaos and clusterfarque of social media too. Soooo, I’m not turning much to the visions of bright minds like his.

What humanity needs is simplicity. Not increasing reliance on technology. Roll back population and there’s no need for nuclear energy and all the complexity and toxic waste that goes with.

Imagine people applying the same degree of thought and effort to simplifying sustainability that we do to farquing things up worse and worse

You are actually condemning a person for inventing the desk top computer? Something that revolutionized the business world?

Maybe we should roll back the population starting with the elderly that are nothing but a drain on the world and economy and spout things like get off my lawn and get rid of all computers.

[citizensadvocate]

Originally Posted by Finper

Maybe we should roll back the population starting with the elderly that are nothing but a drain on the world and economy and spout things like get off my lawn and get rid of all computers.

I am really surprised people who were all about rolling back the population were the most vocal for strict COVID19 restrictions on the general public even though most of the population even elderly ones will survive with only minor symptoms that goes away. I am sure they are about an agenda of control and only using the save grandma excuse to justify/get the public onboard. Someone mentioned disincentive births, however human birth rates are already at its lowest ever in recorded history. Nowadays the crisis is that we would soon have a world over ran with retirees world pretty soon. Since mortailty rates are so low due to modern protective technology and medication. China realized this and rolled back it’s one child policy as they realize they would have a much smaller workforce aged population soon, but lots of retired people. not to mention that generation would have a hard time finding someone to marry.

It’s interesting how California weathered its second energy crisis since SONGs shut down without the mass media hysteria of Enron energy crisis back in 2000. Most quietly paid the skyrocketing power rates after SONGs were deactivated without scrambling to cut back electric use or “set-sudden” as the media and government insisted in the past. Interesting no one urged to “conserve,” no power emergency hysteria, no rolling blackouts. It’s interesting how much influence media makes or lack of media coverage makes.

[Finper]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

I am really surprised people who were all about rolling back the population were the most vocal for strict COVID19 restrictions on the general public even though most of the population even elderly ones will survive with only minor symptoms that goes away. I am sure they are about an agenda of control and only using the save grandma excuse. Someone mentioned disincentive births, however human birth rates are already at its lowest ever in recorded history. Nowadays the crisis is that we would soon have a world over ran with retirees world pretty soon. Since mortailty rates are so low due to modern protective technology and medication. China realized this and rolled back it’s one child policy as they realize they would have a much smaller workforce aged population soon, but lots of retired people. not to mention that generation would have a hard time finding someone to marry.

It’s interesting how California weathered its second energy crisis since SONGs shut down without the media hysteria of Enron energy crisis. Most quietly paid the skyrocketing power rates after SONGs were deactivated without scrambling to cut back electric use or “set-sudden” as the media and government insisted in the past. It’s interesting how much influence media makes or lack of media coverage makes.

To me media will be the downfall of civilization not computers. We are at the start of very bad times

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Finper

To me media will be the downfall of civilization not computers. We are at the start of very bad times

Actually, it’s the people who consume what the media delivers. The media is just taking orders from the public’s demands. Media - except for the very small number of public media players in US, Canada, Britain et al, are for profit retailers selling demand products. Talk to the orchestrators of demand (such as political parties, corporate manufacturers, financial developers and managers, et al). Understand the nature of human fear and desire. Bingo: you’ll understand media.

[Racer46]

Originally Posted by Finper

You are actually condemning a person for inventing the desk top computer? Something that revolutionized the business world?

Maybe we should roll back the population starting with the elderly that are nothing but a drain on the world and economy and spout things like get off my lawn and get rid of all computers.

OK, we can wait till you are one of the elderly and then get rid of you. Humm, does anyone who thinks this would work recognizes that one day they will be in that group?

Please note not a personal attack on you, just a reference to the quote.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Finper

You are actually condemning a person for inventing the desk top computer? Something that revolutionized the business world?

Maybe we should roll back the population starting with the elderly that are nothing but a drain on the world and economy and spout things like get off my lawn and get rid of all computers.

Condemning him? Well, no. I didn’t condemn him. I pointed out that his “revolution” that you admire has brought unmitigated disaster to the world … especially through social,media, which venue is literally tearing societies apart.

Here’s the thing Finper: the human race muddled through for hundreds of thousands of years without these modern technologies. And people were easily as well off in the primitive past as they are today. Arguably much better off in the past. The level of anxiety, stress, mental illness, competition angst alone is off the charts.

Lmfao at your feeble attempt to distance yourself from the elderly. I out contribute you in every way and can run circles around you.

[PacoMartin]

Please try and stick to the topic.

There are well over 50 nuclear power plants that applied for a Nuclear Regulatory Commission license for extended operations beyond their initial 40 year period including Palo Verde in Arizona. The license renewal process normally takes over 2 years.

The Diablo Canyon 1 & 2 license renewal application was withdrawn by the licensee on March 7, 2018. The two units will continue operating until their current operating licenses expire (November 2, 2024, for Unit 1, and August 20, 2025, for Unit 2.)

Basically that's a lot of power generation that must be replaced with natural gas.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

Please try and stick to the topic.

There are well over 50 nuclear power plants that applied for a Nuclear Regulatory Commission license for extended operations beyond their initial 40 year period including Palo Verde in Arizona. The license renewal process normally takes over 2 years.

The Diablo Canyon 1 & 2 license renewal application was withdrawn by the licensee on March 7, 2018. The two units will continue operating until their current operating licenses expire (November 2, 2024, for Unit 1, and August 20, 2025, for Unit 2.)

Basically that's a lot of power generation that must be replaced with natural gas.

Diablo Canyon, like all nuclear generation, is an insane answer to a problem that doesn’t need to exist..

[V8 Vega]

So no nuclear power but all electric cars with only wind and solar to charge them. God luck

[PacoMartin]

California has approximately 80,000 MW of electric generation capacity installed across the state amongst more than 1,500 power plants utilizing a broad array of technologies. Total installed renewable generation capacity is 26,500 MW with almost 12,000 MW from solar and 6,000 MW from wind. Large hydroelectric power plants, considered a zero-carbon resource, provide an additional 12,000 MW of capacity while California's last remaining operational nuclear power plant, Diablo Canyon, provides 2,400 MW. Natural gas-fired power plants make up 41,000 MW or about half of the state's total generating capacity, but their energy is displaced by hydroelectric generation during wet years when spring runoff from snowpack is plentiful.

Originally Posted by V8 Vega

So no nuclear power but all electric cars with only wind and solar to charge them. God luck

When you read that quote from California Energy Commission you might think what is the big deal if we lose Diablo Canyon, as it constitutes only 2,400 MW out of 80,000 MW of electric generation capacity installed across the state amongst more than 1,500 power plants.

As the highest peak load was 47,121 MW on Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 03:57 PM it seems as if 80,000 MW should be more than enough to handle consumer demand. But California had to import 28% of it's electricity from other states.

The number 80,000 MW is called "nameplate capacity" and is a theoretical output if all the plants are operating at 100% theoretical capacity. Actual generation is nowhere near 100% and is particularly low for wind and solar where you might have a drop as much as 5,200 MW in California at the end of the day as these plants shut down.

On august 14, 2020 when demand was roughly 47,000 MW the grid almost shut down and half a million customers experienced the worst black out in 20 years. The next day hundreds of thousands of customer also lost power.

So what will be missed is not the 2,400 MW of capacity at Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant, it will be the 90% or more capacity factor.

What is frightening about the massive blackouts of August 2020 trying to meet 47,000 MW of peak demand is that it was not a particularly unusual event. Peak load hit 50,116 MW on Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 03:58 PM. It's just more power plants were operating at a higher capacity and could meet demand.

In typical fashiong the solution the problem is being solved by raising electric rates to over 40 cents per KWh from 4PM to 9PM. In contrast I pay less than 11 cents per KWh in Pennsylvania at all hours. Essentially this means that the elderly on fixed incomes will risk their lives rather than turn on the Air Conditioning during the hottest portion of the day.

You can expect those peak loads to increase as more and more people come home from their commute and plug in their EVs.