Next (ban) up for California: no gas furnaces or water heaters (Glendale: apartment, movers)

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by NORTY FLATZ

Well, the cost of dyed diesel will make this a tremendously BAD investment. Plan on burning 50 gallons of fuel per day. (That's at 50% duty.) Here in the LA area, dyed diesel is currently $5.63 a gallon. Do the math on that one, for the month...

No way cherry-flavored pig fuel is that much. Normal taxed is like, what? $6/ gallon right now? There's more than 40 cents of taxes on it. But for the record, I know someone who had a home shop that went this direction back in the early 2000s when "rolling blackout" first entered the lexicon, so it's not like it's totally far flung.

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

The Bay Area Air Quality Management District will shut you down as they already have in Oakland.

So what do the building trades do if they can't bring a temporary power pole onsite and need a source of electricity?


The average Joe living in an area such as Oakland isn't going to consider this, but my point was (albeit slightly facetious) to ask what the state could do to prevent you from powering your own house in general. It would be next to impossible to regulate it outside of the major metro areas, and with a small enough unit, even within the big cities to some degree. Especially if it's just as a supplement.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by GuyInSD

Out of curiosity, I decided to see what going all-electric would likely mean for me.

Taking my January 2022 SDG&E bill (when I was using the furnace), I see the following charges:

Gas: 20 Therms = $47.05 ($2.3525 / Therm)
Electricity: 290 kWh = $116.40 ($0.4018 / kWh)
Total: $163.45

Each Therm is equivalent to 29.3 kWh, so assuming the same amount of energy usage, my kWhs used would have been:
Electricity: 290 + (20 x 29.3) = 876 kWh

Assuming the same $0.4018 / kWh cost (which is actually lowballing what the actual cost would be - with that amount of usage, given tiered pricing, the cost would rise quite a bit); but for now:
876 x $0.4018 = $351.98

additional cost: $188.53
or new monthly charge = 2.15x the original charge

That's assuming that kWh conversion is like for like with respect to real world efficiency, which from my experience (growing up in an all electric house), probably isn't true. But I think you've made the point nicely that this will be a gut punch for the average consumer.


I didn't read the proposals, but does the CARB rule address propane too?

[artillery77]

Why is that within the government's scope? I seriously don't understand the audacity to propose things that really shouldn't be legal.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by citizensadvocate

Just as how they have wood burning bans.

Yes... spare the air days every year but generator was granted a temp permit when PGE lost transformers but PGE says the business required more power than the area service can provide so business owner has been running generator for months and a Judge ruled business must shut down the generator.

I maintain Hospital Diesel Generators and Air District is strict on max maintenance and testing hours and run time when no PGE available documented...

Diesel is the target and it would be different if gas powered but big units nearly always diesel...

[NORTY FLATZ]

Originally Posted by joosoon

No way cherry-flavored pig fuel is that much. Normal taxed is like, what? $6/ gallon right now? There's more than 40 cents of taxes on it.

Federal excise tax rate is 24.4 cents per gallon, currently.

Calif excise tax rate is 41 cents per gallon, currently.

These do NOT include sales taxes. These are strictly "road taxes."

Funny you mention "cherry-flavored."

The dye, used in creating "dyed diesel" is Dupont red #5. It's the same dye used in ATF. When the customer wants dyed diesel, the dye is injected inline during the fueling of the tanker truck, at the rack. About every 130 gallons depending on the rack set-up, you can hear the injection pump, dump some dye in the fuel as it's flowing into the truck. (Tidbit~ Trucks use 4 inch dry-break fittings, that flow anywhere from 150 GPM, to 750 GPM loading at the rack.) I've seen drivers try to "time" the dye injection, and move that "super dyed fuel" into another compartment. What this does is keep a compartment for "clear" fuel, and evade paying both State and Fed excise taxes on the fuel. It can then be sold for the "taxed" price to a station for an add'l 65 cents per gallon profit. When you're talking 8200 gallons per load, that's a good chunk of change. Figure that each truck does 4.5 to 5 loads in an 8 to 10 hour shift. (Some up to 12 loads, if the drop is really close to the rack, and the drop has HUGE tanks.) Pump jobs take double the time, but pay twice as much.

Back to the "tax evasion" scheme. the IRS has "DFI's (Diesel Fuel Inspectors" that frequent the truck scales...often.) In the area I'm in (SoCal) the Laguna Niguel office has 3 DFI's. They work from Laguna to the Mexican Border. Don't know how far East these 3 go, but Imperial County is probably in their wheelhouse. (There's a helluva lotta AG in Imperial Co.)

Back when I was a Bulk fuel Jobber (until 2006,) the fine for having dyed diesel in your on-road truck fuel tank(s) was $1100 for your first violation. $4000 for the 2nd violation. 3rd violation, they confiscate your truck.
Don't know what the IRS does now. (But, I DO know they just bought 15 machine guns...)

And they bought them with the anticipation of using 'em...

[JGC97]

I like it that all new construction in California requires tankless water heaters to be installed. It's also nice the state is offering up to $200 (while the money lasts) for installation in existing homes. That's a big plus

[Ultrarunner]

My plumber friends lobbied hard for that…

I’m receiving excellent service from conventional gas storage tank heaters… some on the job 25 years or more

My experience with tankless not so reliable and require service…

Plus… tank water heaters hold emergency water in a pinch as our friends found during the big quake in 1989.

[vincenze]

It's very likely that electricity prices in California will increase 50-100% this year.

California is powered mostly by natural gas generators. American natural gas companies send as much gas as possible abroad because prices are much higher there.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by vincenze

It's very likely that electricity prices in California will increase 50-100% this year.

By that much?! How will people afford this? It was bad enough to open the Edison bill for last month with that brutal heatwave in September.

[Ultrarunner]

I have electric and gas tankless...

The electric is more reliable but takes a huge electrical service to operate.

The gas requires venting and more maintenance...

They all have their place but tankless heaters have been around longer than home tank heaters and I still come across some in the Oakland Berke TVley hills...