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If was in response to your claim that rail systems deal with increases in demand better. So if it was a pointless tangent perhaps you shouldn't have made it.
Go ahead and try to turn this around on me but you're the one that went off on the pointless tangents to try to bolster your position, not me.
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We are entering a global recession, so what you expect is unlikely to be the case. If you haven't noticed commodities are dropping like flies.
And do you expect the global recession to last 15-20 years?
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Its more likely that things are going to be cheaper in a few years, that is the current trend.
I'm thinking long term not short term.
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Perhaps you didn't understand the question. How is it going to create 100,000 jobs in California? And how is it going to spur billions in development minus government spending
Linking a bunch of resources about the rail system doesn't answer these questions.
I figured since you are the expert and all you'd be able to answer these questions. If you don't know the answer that is fine, just don't pretend like you are answering it by providing random links on the rail system.
READ THE LINKS! REREAD THE THREAD! I've already addressed this issue at least once in this thread, I don't feel like continually repeating the same thing over and over! Refer to post #46 and #52 for a general overview of this. Then refer to the links for more specifics on some of the things I mentioned.
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Relying on rental cars will just add to the existing congestion.
Not anymore so than would actually occur if everyone just flew or drove like currently. Again, you just decide on a new thing to argue about b/c you don't like my answer, how many more tangents are you going to go off on?>?
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Again, the problems with city-level travel will be a bottle neck.
Bottlenecks are not the only reason for congestion. You can not solve all bottlenecks w/o expanding freeways to unreasonable and unrealistic widths. YOU CAN'T SOLVE CONGESTION, how many times do you have to keep running in the same circles?
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You haven't addressed this all you've stated is that a small amount of money will be used to improve public transit.
And public transit is city-level transit and I addressed that.
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There is not an unlimited supply of money to fund these projects. You can't do both, in fact its unlikely that the state will even be able to sell the bonds required to do the HSR. At least city-level transit projects can be done one at a time as funding is available.
I think the state will be able to sell these bonds, like they have in the past.
And I think urban areas will continue to fund local transportation projects through local initiatives.
If you don't then fine, I do.
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Supply and demand. As demand increases airlines, trains etc will have to raise their prices (the alternative is storages).
Not if the supply increases enough to meet demand, which IMO will come in a combination of HSR and increases in airport capacity and roads.
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"Public good" is driving the state into bankruptcy. I hope you are creating a plan B for when California goes under.
Prop 13 and many other factors are doing that.
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Personally, I'm already looking into a number of areas to relocate.
Cool, the sooner the better. You're probably not even originally from CA to begin with....
1.) The state wastes money on all sorts of things.
Therefore, it should spend money on the HSR because I think it may be useful.
I didn't find this line of reasoning worth responding to, it obviously doesn't address the financial concerns of the project. Two wrongs don't make a right.
You also ranted about hybrids. Incidentally, hybrid sells have been going up fairly rapidly the last few years. So, the market does have interest. But current hybrid technology is not that great, it mainly benefits those who do a lot of city driving. But there are a number of new technologies on the horizon, such as all electric hybrids (i.e., where the gas motor no longer is connected to the drive train) and fuel cells.
So you essentially agree with my points is what it sounds like. I have to agree with the other poster, at this point, you're arguing just for the sake of arguing.
Just the fact that you have to ask someone to prove how building a state-wide rail system is going to create jobs........wow, just wow. What? The rail will magically build itself? I understand insisting that someone back up their claims, but you're kind of reaching at this point.
READ THE LINKS! REREAD THE THREAD! I've already addressed this issue at least once in this thread, I don't feel like continually repeating the same thing over and over! Refer to post #46 and #52 for a general overview of this. Then refer to the links for more specifics on some of the things I mentioned.
Nothing you said in those posts address my questions. I really don't expect you to be able to address them really, you're not an economist. But I'm curious how 100,000 jobs in California will be created and how billions in non-spending will occur. The stress is on the how and hand waving doesn't address the issue.
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Originally Posted by sav858
Not anymore so than would actually occur if everyone just flew or drove like currently. Again, you just decide on a new thing to argue about b/c you don't like my answer, how many more tangents are you going to go off on?>?
Bottlenecks are not the only reason for congestion.
This is not a "new thing", its been one of my main arguments this entire thread. Namely, that the high speed rail will not be effective without dramatically improved city-level transit.
But, I have to giggle a bit at your comments. I accuse you of X and then you start to accuse me of X.
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Originally Posted by sav858
I think the state will be able to sell these bonds, like they have in the past.
Why given what is happening in the credit markets? They had trouble selling bonds for necessary spending. What they did in the past doesn't matter, the entire financial landscape is changing.
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Originally Posted by sav858
Cool, the sooner the better. You're probably not even originally from CA to begin with....
Yes, of course because I disagree with you. My roots in the Los Angeles area go back 100 years. And yes, the sooner the better. That is sort of funny in a way as left-wing policies are driving businesses out of the state. When I leave my business comes with me. I seriously don't know a single business owner that does business nationally/globally in California that isn't thinking about leaving the state.
The cost to both live and do business in the state are just too high. In order for the state to become viable again it will need to reduce taxes and property costs will need to significantly drop (residential and commercial).
Just the fact that you have to ask someone to prove how building a state-wide rail system is going to create jobs........wow, just wow. What? The rail will magically build itself?
The question was how the rail project will create 100,000 jobs. Don't know why you are interested in distorting matters.
Nothing you said in those posts address my questions. I really don't expect you to be able to address them really, you're not an economist. But I'm curious how 100,000 jobs in California will be created and how billions in non-spending will occur. The stress is on the how and hand waving doesn't address the issue.
Yes I did, I gave a very basic general overview of how an HSR system can create jobs and economic development. Then provided the links for a more detailed and in depth report on it. Do your own research, I'm tired to trying to spoon feed you information just for you to go off on another tangent to argue about.
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This is not a "new thing", its been one of my main arguments this entire thread. Namely, that the high speed rail will not be effective without dramatically improved city-level transit.
And I've REPEATEDLY addressed this concern several times already.
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Why given what is happening in the credit markets?
Do your own research, I'm tired to trying to spoon feed you information just for you to go off on another tangent to argue about.
Again, if you don't have an answer that is fine. Just don't pretend like hand waving and posting random links about the rail is answering my question. Its not. It is obvious how the rail is going to create some jobs, the question is how is it going to create 100,000 jobs, most importantly jobs not funded by tax dollars.
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Originally Posted by sav858
Great, something we finally agree on.
Funny, you can't disagree with someone without wishing them out of the state. I tell everyone to think about leaving the state as things are only going to get worse. Its better to be prepared.
Again, if you don't have an answer that is fine. Just don't pretend like hand waving and posting random links about the rail is answering my question. Its not. It is obvious how the rail is going to create some jobs, the question is how is it going to create 100,000 jobs, most importantly jobs not funded by tax dollars.
Again I already answered that question on previous posts and provided you sources for more specifics, if you didn't like my answer that is not my problem. Don't pretend that I didn't mention how HSR can create jobs and economic growth because I did. I am not going to continue to repeat the same things over and over to you b/c then you'll just continue arguing about the same crap that we've gone over already.
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Funny, you can't disagree with someone without wishing them out of the state. I tell everyone to think about leaving the state as things are only going to get worse. Its better to be prepared.
No it's just you, I disagree with people all the time but have never dealt with someone so stubborn, close minded, and who goes off on random tangents in an attempt to bolster their argument. I have no interest in continuing to run in circles with you about the same thing over and over.
I can move on, unfortunately you cannot.
Don't pretend that I didn't mention how HSR can create jobs and economic growth because I did. I am not going to continue to repeat the same things over and over to you b/c then you'll just continue arguing about the same crap that we've gone over already.
The issue isn't how the HSR will create jobs but how it will create 100,000 jobs and spur billions in private development. This hasn't been addressed, you can believe you addressed it all you wish though.
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Originally Posted by sav858
and who goes off on random tangents in an attempt to bolster their argument.
Yes, this is where you accuse me of something I accused you of first. "You are X, no you are!" But the reality is that "debates" don't get on tangents unless the people involved (all of them) create them. My recent post was an attempt to redirect the conversation into the real issues, you didn't say one thing about the "tangents" until I did. Sorta funny, reminds me of being in elementary school.
The issue isn't how the HSR will create jobs but how it will create 100,000 jobs and spur billions in private development. This hasn't been addressed, you can believe you addressed it all you wish though.
HSR will spur private development around stations worth billions of dollars. Hotels, offices, residential, retail, etc..developments will occur next to HSR stations due to the desirability of being located next to such stations, the Transbay Terminal in SF is a great example of that. I already stated that in a more general way but I guess I should have also said by doing so that it creates jobs, but I figured that was pretty obvious, apparently not.
I wasn't very specific and that is why I provided the links. This is a great example of your debating style, this whole back and forth about you wanting me to spoon feed you information and if I don't then I am just pretending to know what I'm talking about adds NOTHING to this whole debate at all. It doesn't bolster your argument one bit but you keep beating this dead horse over and over and for what purpose? All you want to do is find new ways to argue, it's very pathetic on top of being incredibly annoying.
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Yes, this is where you accuse me of something I accused you of first. "You are X, no you are!" But the reality is that "debates" don't get on tangents unless the people involved (all of them) create them. My recent post was an attempt to redirect the conversation into the real issues, you didn't say one thing about the "tangents" until I did. Sorta funny, reminds me of being in elementary school.
No actually you are very wrong on this, I repeatedly mentioned how you kept bringing up the same issues over and over earlier in the thread. REREAD the thread if you can't see how.
That's nice that you decided to redirect the thread after you kept going off on the same tangents repeatedly despite myself addressing them every damn time. But that doesn't change the fact that you started and kept going off on the same things repeatedly. Even 'ZhugeLiang'could see how you were arguing just for the sake of arguing. And that is why I am sick and tired of arguing with you, it goes nowhere and you just repeat the same thing over and over and it doesn't bolster your argument at all. But keep telling yourself whatever you need to to get through the day.......
But go ahead and keep bringing up trivial crap that doesn't matter and that is fairly irrelevant to this whole debate about HSR b/c you need to fill some empty void in your life by constantly arguing online....
.... about HSR b/c you need to fill some empty void in your life by constantly arguing online....
Not sure if you ever noticed, but it takes more than one person to debate/argue. This thread is filled with just as many posts from you as it is me. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
"I can move on, unfortunately you cannot." Apparently, you can't. You just had to respond to my previous post.
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