The OFFICIAL Proposition 8 Thread: READ HERE FIRST (Montclair, Auburn: 2015, school district)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by AuburnJack

The assertion that gay marriage will be "taught in schools" is patently ridiculous, and easily debunked with the barest minimum of actual research.

Aside from empty words from No proponents, I've seen no real rebuttals to these commercials.


YouTube - Yes on 8 TV Ad: Everything To Do With Schools


YouTube - Yes on 8 TV Ad: It's Already Happened


YouTube - Proposition 8 - Answering the Latest Lie

I am in stark disbelief that so many people in my community can be either this willfully ignorant, or proudly hateful.

Indeed.

Of course, I hope everyone realizes that whichever way this falls, this isn't over.

Those of who voted in 2001 are painfully aware of that.

[caylee tatum]

Thank you for writing this. Finally someone says something intelligent. And to add to what you're saying, not allowing gay marriage is a blatant contradiction to the constitution. Believing gays should not have the right to get married is mere ignorance. It's nice to hear someone give an intelligent point of view on this topic.

[AuburnJack]

Originally Posted by Alexus

I agree. It is very possible to support this proposition and not "hate" gay people. I earlier mentioned one reason why this is so.

I concur. If it's not hatred of gay people, it's usually fear of them. As in, the notion that allowing gay people to have the same traditions as straight people will somehow impact straight people in a negative way. This fear is the driving force behind the Yes on 8 campaign: they'll indoctrinate your kids! They'll legalize bestiality! They'll take away your religion! They'll destroy the traditions you hold dear!

This fear is born of ignorance, and consciously propagated by those with a specific agenda: the advancement of religion in state government. The role of the Mormon Church in this proposition is well known, and I'd suggest doing a few Google searches on Elsa Broekhuizen and Howard F. Ahmanson, as well.

That all being said, fear/ignorance is not somehow a better reason to deny people rights than hatred. Especially because it is so much more easily mitigated.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Aside from empty words from No proponents, I've seen no real rebuttals to these commercials.


YouTube - Yes on 8 TV Ad: Everything To Do With Schools


YouTube - Yes on 8 TV Ad: It's Already Happened


YouTube - Proposition 8 - Answering the Latest Lie

Actually, they have answered those ads... have you been paying attention to the "No on 8" commercials? Btw, they didn't have any NO commercials until the Yes campaign started - and the other side finally decided to respond to the blatant lies and half-truths. I'm on a mailing list for EQCA (Equality CA), and they have been keeping me updated on the rebuttals.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by AuburnJack

I concur. If it's not hatred of gay people, it's usually fear of them.

In other words, Either your with us or against us.

Thank You.

Undecideds take note.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Actually, they have answered those ads... have you been paying attention to the "No on 8" commercials?

Well, unless Im missing something, the main rebuttal by the State Sup is debunked by his own website.

I'm on a mailing list for EQCA (Equality CA), and they have been keeping me updated on the rebuttals.

Okay.

[AuburnJack]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Aside from empty words from No proponents, I've seen no real rebuttals to these commercials.


YouTube - Yes on 8 TV Ad: Everything To Do With Schools


YouTube - Yes on 8 TV Ad: It's Already Happened


YouTube - Proposition 8 - Answering the Latest Lie

Here you go. California Education Code:

CALIFORNIA EDUCATION CODE SECTION 51240-51246

51240. (a) If any part of a school's instruction in health
conflicts with the religious training and beliefs of a parent or
guardian of a pupil, the pupil, upon written request of the parent or
guardian, shall be excused from the part of the instruction that
conflicts with the religious training and beliefs.
(b) For purposes of this section, "religious training and beliefs"
includes personal moral convictions.

This is in combination with another part of the code that lays out how the state assists (not enforces) with the creation of curricula for local school districts.

CALIFORNIA EDUCATION CODE SECTION 51900-51901

51900. The department shall prepare and distribute to school
districts guidelines for the preparation of comprehensive health
education plans, and, in cooperation with those county offices of
education which desire to participate, assist school districts in
developing comprehensive health education plans and programs. For
this purpose, the department shall assume the following functions and
carry out the following duties:
(a) Assist in the development of model curricula for the public
schools for comprehensive health education programs consistent with
the provisions and intent of approved district comprehensive health
education plans.

What this basically means is that schools may or may not teach the subject of marriage (and I don't know about you, but I didn't have a "marriage unit" in my biology or health classes), but if they do, they still have to inform parents on curriculum contents, and parents still have the right to excuse their children from specific curricula based on personal or religious belief.

Amending the constitution will not affect these clauses of the California Education Code in any way, and it is grossly disingenuous of Prop 8 supporters to insinuate otherwise.

[AuburnJack]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

In other words, Either your with us or against us.

Thank You.

Undecideds take note.

Oh, please. Because amending the constitution to "protect" marriage's supposed definition as "your" tradition is a shining example of reaching across the aisle, yes?

Besides which, no, those are not "other words" for what I said. Those are your words. If you are going to quote me, put the straw man away and address what I actually said.

[Rhenzanite]

Originally Posted by AuburnJack

What this basically means is that schools may or may not teach the subject of marriage (and I don't know about you, but I didn't have a "marriage unit" in my biology or health classes), but if they do, they still have to inform parents on curriculum contents, and parents still have the right to excuse their children from specific curricula based on personal or religious belief.

Amending the constitution will not affect these clauses of the California Education Code in any way, and it is grossly disingenuous of Prop 8 supporters to insinuate otherwise.

It's amazing how everyone forgets about that gosh darn education code!! Or the fact that you will not be able to have someone marry a 12 year old or dog.... TWO CONSENTING ADULTS. Animals cannot sign contracts, and 12 year olds can't either, their signatures would be null and void because of their age. Changing the legal age of adults would be quite a bit harder to do than simply letting two consenting adults marry.

[Taboo2]

Auburn Jack makes the most valid points on here.