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To all those people who use the Bible to justify their disapproval of homosexuality.
I hope you don't shave or get haircuts:
Leviticus 19:27 "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."
And I hope you don't eat shrimp, scallops, or oysters:
Leviticus 11: 9-12 "These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you. They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you."
And we all know how God feels about working on Sundays. All I'm saying is that if you claim to follow the Bible to such a point that it makes you dislike an entire group of people, at least follow the Bible all the way and don't eat shrimp, let your hair grow long, and don't do anything productive on Sundays.
That's like saying that after the Rodney King Riots, African Americans "proved" they deserved to be treated like animals. Burning down their own communities, specifically targeting Koreans and Whites, pulling people out of their cars and beating them over the head with bricks...sounds to me like a group of people that isn't "good enough" for basic human rights. That's using your logic anyway. And what the rioters did to LA was much worse than a few thousand gay people holding up traffic for a few hours.
I am so sick and tired of Gays trying to compare their issues to Black issues. You obviously are not Black and no nothing about us, our history or what we've had to do to still not be considered equal. BOO-HOO Gays can't destroy a basic tenet of religion and get married. Cry me a freakin river. We are being treated as less than because people are not willing to abandon their faith and belief systems for us.
And if you were paying attention, there were just as many Whites and Hispanics rioting along with us.
You're right, that is an example. It's an example of the fact that trying to control what Precious Snowflake observes and learns from until they turn 18 is an exercise in futility.
I am not yet a parent, but I am already resigned to the fact that when I do have school-aged children, they will be exposed to things that I would rather they not be exposed to, just like I was. They will say and do things I don't approve of, just like I did. And they will learn to make their own decisions and form their own ethical identities, just like I hope they do.
Gay people exist. They form long-term commitments, have children, raise families. Your children will eventually be exposed to it, and have to process it. And despite your fears, it's not going to warp their ethical worldview unless you tell them it does. I know this from first-hand experience... I don't hate homosexuality as a "sin" or fear that their relationships are going to somehow make the sky fall, because that is a learned behavior that I wasn't taught.
I don't know where this "they're going to indoctrinate our children!" thing is coming from. Bizarre.
Anyway, I posted this before on a similar thread here on CD. Here's my example (and question) for those of you who keep going on about school indoctrination:
I am a lesbian, and together with my partner we are raising our 3 children. Those of you who keep talking about this indoctrination thing... lets say our kids went to the same school and we attend the same PTA meetings, fundraisers, and so forth. Your little Suzy sees us at school with our kids (or is perhaps friends with one of our children and has heard first hand about our family) and asks about why our kids have "2 moms". Are you just going to put your hands over your ears and say "LALALALALA I can't hear you honey!"...?
Are you going to demand that our family is removed from the school, so you don't have to "deal with this"?
Maybe you'd like to create some sort of rule that allows only one of us to pick our kids up, the other never showing their face at the school, so as to not create "confusion" in your little perfect bubble of a world.
Or perhaps we should teach our kids to lie and say that one of us is "the nanny" or "roommate"?
I'd really, really like to know. Families like ours DO exist and have for a very long time, and all the propositions/amendments/praying in the world will not eliminate their existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happ
Please be aware that Christianity disagrees with you & resent Mormon beliefs. It wasn't that long ago\1979 that official Mormon doctrine identified Blacks as sub-human. There were many bishops who condemned Prop 8 & urged their flock to accept gay marriage. The Episcopal church is much larger than Mormonism in California. They conduct marriage ceremonies for gays [even consider it to be a sacrament]. A Lutheran pastor married his male partner in his own parish & with approval by the Synod bishop.
<snip>
Yeah, my Mormon Uncle didn't pay too much attention to any of the marriage amendments.... he was too busy worrying about the possibility of a Black person in the White House and has been going on NON STOP since the election about how it's now the "Black House" and a bunch of other racist garbage. He has been deeply involved in the Mormon church since the 1950's, and while I certainly don't know where he got these ideas, I can tell you he was NOT raised with any kind of racist BS (this is my mom's brother)...so he didn't get it from home!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer
EXCUSE ME. What makes you think you are good enough to get married. From what I have been hearing from you, you certainly act like a bigot. You want to class all gays as the same, we are not. We are individuals just like you, we eat, work, play and hurt the same as you do. Do not fool your self into thinking that you are better just because you are straight and christian.
Exactly.
I wasn't aware of any "litmus test" anyway. I'm extremely insulted by the suggestion that we are not "good enough" to get married but a repeatedly convicted child molester is free to marry. As is a serial killer, rapist, or drug lord. I am sooooo weary of the "sanctity" argument. If it's about that, tell me, please, where are the propositions to outlaw divorce except in extreme cases of abuse? Or outlaw co-habitation, i.e. "living in sin"? Adultery?
And for the umpteen millionth time, who told religious folk... actually by that I mean CHRISTIANS, that marriage was solely THEIRS??????
One final thing on civil unions: if civil unions carried EXACTLY the same legal rights as marriage, and gay folk started getting "unioned" left and right but referred to at as being "married" , used the word "marriage" in their vows and ceremony, referred to the ceremony as a "wedding" and in general, although the official term was civil union, "everyone" just called it marriage, would you then be moving for some sort of law to legislate the LANGUAGE people used??? To regulate speech? Because, if it's all about the word, how would you stop that? Or would you be happy that their piece of paper said "civil union" while YOURS said "Marriage"??
I am so sick and tired of Gays trying to compare their issues to Black issues. You obviously are not Black and no nothing about us, our history or what we've had to do to still not be considered equal. BOO-HOO Gays can't destroy a basic tenet of religion and get married. Cry me a freakin river. We are being treated as less than because people are not willing to abandon their faith and belief systems for us.
And if you were paying attention, there were just as many Whites and Hispanics rioting along with us.
I'm not gay and I'm with the gay peeps on this one.
To all those people who use the Bible to justify their disapproval of homosexuality.
I hope you don't shave or get haircuts:
Leviticus 19:27 "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."
And I hope you don't eat shrimp, scallops, or oysters:
Leviticus 11: 9-12 "These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you. They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you."
And we all know how God feels about working on Sundays. All I'm saying is that if you claim to follow the Bible to such a point that it makes you dislike an entire group of people, at least follow the Bible all the way and don't eat shrimp, let your hair grow long, and don't do anything productive on Sundays.
Good thing I dont do any of the above. What a relief.
jk.
Seriously though,
I don't work, go out to eat or spend money at all, watch tv or movies, dont listen to the radio or secular music, dont do landscaping or work in the garden, don't do laundry or housework(aside from washing dishes I suppose) on sundays. Been that way since I was a kid.
I try to get everything done on Saturday. Tomorrow I gas up the car, do all the shopping for food, pick up drycleaning and take care of all the stuff mentioned above.
Good thing I dont do any of the above. What a relief.
jk.
Seriously though,
I don't work, go out to eat or spend money at all, watch tv or movies, dont listen to the radio or secular music, dont do landscaping or work in the garden, don't do laundry or housework(aside from washing dishes I suppose) on sundays. Been that way since I was a kid.
I try to get everything done on Saturday. Tomorrow I gas up the car, do all the shopping for food, pick up drycleaning and take care of all the stuff mentioned above.
Midnight to Midnight.
How about the other two? Do you shave or eat shrimp/scallops/oysters? Because as far as I'm concerned there is no picking and choosing which parts of the Bible to take literally and which parts to ignore, if someone wants to bring this book into the public arena and use it to determine what other people are allowed and aren't allowed to do. I'm not necessarily talking about you, because I haven't had time to go through this entire thread. I'm talking about those who quote this or that verse of the Bible where God supposedly says homosexuality an "abomination"...and then these same people go home and shave, eat shrimp, work on Sundays, and aren't members of the Communist Party (Jesus condemned rich people and said that you should give all your money to the poor).
EXCUSE ME. What makes you think you are good enough to get married. From what I have been hearing from you, you certainly act like a bigot. You want to class all gays as the same, we are not. We are individuals just like you, we eat, work, play and hurt the same as you do. Do not fool your self into thinking that you are better just because you are straight and christian.
It's amazing how people only read what they want to read. At no time have I ever written that I think I'm better than ANYBODY.
In fact, before I was attacked I even offered to assist in getting the decision reversed IF there was a provision that protected churches from losing their non-profit status and being sued for refusing to perform same sex marriages. AND children would not be indoctrinated with homosexuality at school.
Of course after the attacks on this forum, and watching the attack on the Mormon church I would never consider such action now.
Shucks, no emoticons that emote 'feigned indignation'.
Anyway,
That march. Is it headed to the LDS Temple again? My sister is down there and supposed to go the temple tomorrow but if the march is going there I'm gonna tell her to stay away.
I can't imagine a march starting in Silverlake [near Red Line station at Vermont & Santa Monica] going all the way to Westwood, but I would avoid that area if you can. Since it starts at 6PM it should be cool enough that protesters won't give up before reaching West Hollywood [that must be about 5 miles]. Hope it stays peaceful.
How about the other two? Do you shave or eat shrimp/scallops/oysters? Because as far as I'm concerned there is no picking and choosing which parts of the Bible to take literally and which parts to ignore, if someone wants to bring this book into the public arena and use it to determine what other people are allowed and aren't allowed to do. I'm not necessarily talking about you, because I haven't had time to go through this entire thread. I'm talking about those who quote this or that verse of the Bible where God supposedly says homosexuality an "abomination"...and then these same people go home and shave, eat shrimp, work on Sundays, and aren't members of the Communist Party (Jesus condemned rich people and said that you should give all your money to the poor).
Well, its one thing to pick and choose and its another thing to assign equal importance to every thing written in the Bible.
So here's what you can do. Start a campaign condeming all Christians who let their hair grow and eat shrimp. Both incredibly important topics.
And we'll focus on preserving one of the most fundamental aspects of human existence.
Please note my tongue-in-cheek.
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We are being treated as less than because people are not willing to abandon their faith and belief systems for us.
