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Old 11-05-2008, 11:55 PM
 
Location: yeah
5,717 posts, read 16,310,792 times
Reputation: 2974

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
If you believe this project is going to cost anything close to what they say it will, I've got a once in a lifetime deal on some swamp land in Florida for you.
Then you're happy with no progress ever. Sort out government incompetence separately of this project.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:00 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,361,816 times
Reputation: 7585
Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
Then you're happy with no progress ever. Sort out government incompetence separately of this project.
Kind of hard to separate the two considering who's going to be running the project and who's going to pay to operate it at a loss every year.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Westminster/Huntington Beach, CA
1,780 posts, read 1,749,634 times
Reputation: 1218
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
Kind of hard to separate the two considering who's going to be running the project and who's going to pay to operate it at a loss every year.
Have you left CA yet?? Jeez..
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:02 AM
 
Location: NYC
1,213 posts, read 3,599,886 times
Reputation: 1254
I'm glad this passed. It's either build this or build more freeways. We've tried the freeways for the last 60 years. It's time to move in a new direction. I get tired of the whole, "I'll never use it, so my tax dollars shouldn't pay for it" argument against every rail/transit project, but yet it's okay to use my tax dollars for freeway expansions that I have no use for.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:05 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,361,816 times
Reputation: 7585
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsteelers247 View Post
Have you left CA yet?? Jeez..
If you're so anxious to see me leave, you can paypal me some money so I can get out quicker. Otherwise, its none of your business.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:08 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,361,816 times
Reputation: 7585
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt345 View Post
I'm glad this passed. It's either build this or build more freeways. We've tried the freeways for the last 60 years. It's time to move in a new direction. I get tired of the whole, "I'll never use it, so my tax dollars shouldn't pay for it" argument against every rail/transit project, but yet it's okay to use my tax dollars for freeway expansions that I have no use for.
No, we tried freeway building from the 1950's - 1970's. Since then, the roads have not kept up with the population. Gas tax dollars have been diverted into the general fund or spent on short subways under LA which do little to get to get the bulk of the population where they're going.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:05 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
18,966 posts, read 32,492,053 times
Reputation: 13615
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
No, we tried freeway building from the 1950's - 1970's. Since then, the roads have not kept up with the population. Gas tax dollars have been diverted into the general fund or spent on short subways under LA which do little to get to get the bulk of the population where they're going.

As long as you have population growth, which CA will have for the foreseeable future, you will NEVER solve freeway congestion with widenings and more freeways. Never has worked and never will. With how many people CA has currently and will have in 30 years, transportation alternatives like HSR is what will help keep CA moving.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:23 AM
 
Location: NYC
1,213 posts, read 3,599,886 times
Reputation: 1254
I once read on this or some other forum that widening freeways to solve your traffic problem is like loosening your belt to solve your weight problem. History has proven that you will never solve traffic problems simply by building more roads. Seriously, how much wider can the 405 get? You want 30 lane freeways? Double or triple decker freeways? Why don't we just bulldoze half of LA and Orange Counties and make it one nice, big wide freeway.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:29 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
18,966 posts, read 32,492,053 times
Reputation: 13615
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt345 View Post
I once read on this or some other forum that widening freeways to solve your traffic problem is like loosening your belt to solve your weight problem. History has proven that you will never solve traffic problems simply by building more roads. Seriously, how much wider can the 405 get? You want 30 lane freeways? Double or triple decker freeways? Why don't we just bulldoze half of LA and Orange Counties and make it one nice, big wide freeway.

that's a good analogy and sums it up pretty well actually. I might have to start using that line when I try to explain to people how freeway expansions never solve congestion in the long run.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:54 AM
 
3,292 posts, read 4,464,223 times
Reputation: 822
People also need to keep in mind that when they say that the measure is expensive, every other form of transportation is costing you a lot as well. The automobile and airline industries are heavily subsidized. You also need to add in the other expenses, such as various environmental factors.
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