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Old 11-20-2008, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Whiteville Tennessee
8,262 posts, read 18,429,955 times
Reputation: 10148

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
To just give an example of the different costs between California vs other areas take Austin, TX. Austin, TX has a low unemployment rate and a good job market. Take the example of a married couple (no kids) making $150k a year. In terms of just taxes and real estate here is how they compare:

CA TX
Income tax........$600/month...........$0
Property Tax......$416/month...........$458/month
Mortgage...........$2,500/month........$1,260/month

The real estate numbers are based on a house that costs $500,000 assuming down 20% and 30/fixed mortgage. Where as Austin is $250,000 assuming 20% down and 30/fixed. Comparable homes are roughly half the cost in Austin vs major California cities/areas. And just in case anybody doubts this here are some listings from Austin:

10128 Channel Island, Austin, TX, 78747 - MLS ID#6806022 - Single Family Home Real Estate - REALTOR.com® (http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?loc=Austin%2c+Texas&ml=8&mxp=25 0000&bd=4&typ=1&sqft=7&pfbm=10&sid=5655c3920acb46f 18fed0f3b2af5aea4&lid=1104067497&lsn=3&srcnt=512 - broken link)
15204 Bowling LN, Lakeway, TX, 78734 - MLS ID#2872416 - Single Family Home Real Estate - REALTOR.com® (http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?pg=4&srcnt=512&srcnt=512&sid=56 55c3920acb46f18fed0f3b2af5aea4&loc=Austin%2c+Texas &ml=8&mxp=250000&bd=4&typ=1&sqft=7&pfbm=10&fhpg=4& lid=1096594460&lsn=36 - broken link)

There are ton of such homes. These would be at least $500,000 in any major city (or close suburb) in California right now.

So that is an extra $1,798/month just for the pleasure of living in California and doesn't even include the fact that a number of other things are cheaper in Texas.

So I ask what in California is worth $1,798/month?
Excellant post my friend!! Replace Austin with West Tennessee and you have the reason I left San Luis Obispo. I live quite well on my pension and was able to pay cash for my modest home and 18 acres! Although I miss theocean and the Sierras, there is plenty of outdoor rec herein Tennessee.

 
Old 11-20-2008, 08:46 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 5,280,481 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
I looked up the median salary for Bay area RNs and its $70,000. Only 10% make more than $90,000.
If this is how you do research well ... you really have no idea what you're talking about. When you're first starting out as an RN you don't typically make more than $100K but, you do once you put some time in.

Just at the Monterey county hospital alone you can make $54 an hour at top scale or ... $68 an hour per diem.

https://jobs.co.monterey.ca.us/sigma...terednurse.pdf

Funny ... $53 an hour is what I make. And before you continue your flawed research keep in mind that a lot of RN's work part time because they have kids and they can afford to stay at home more because the job pays well.

So why don't you quit trying to lecture all of us about a subject that you obviously know nothing about.

Last edited by sheri257; 11-20-2008 at 09:56 AM..
 
Old 11-20-2008, 08:51 AM
 
1,319 posts, read 4,226,041 times
Reputation: 1152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
The government issues marriage licenses, so how can you not get the government involved? Getting married in name without the legal backing of the state has no teeth legally.
The govt has no business issuing marriage licenses.
If people want legal backing they can have partnership contracts, which have the legal weight of any contract. Any properly written contract has legal backing as strong as a marriage cert.
This would end all this crap about who can marry who.
 
Old 11-20-2008, 09:23 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 5,280,481 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by happ View Post
With all due respect, I'm convinced the poster wouldn't believe anything if it conflicts with his/her preconceived notions about California & the rest of the nation. It is easier to bad mouth California if you have decided on moving out of state. If you think living in a place like Arkansas sounds interesting than you don't really enjoy the opportunities that you have in California. And as I have noticed, people who are super-uptight about tolerance & diversity would be better off living in Mississippi anyway.
As someone who was actually born in Mississippi, I couldn't agree more.

 
Old 11-20-2008, 09:32 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 5,280,481 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
A person should ask himself, "How much time am I outside enjoying the weather?"

About 17 minutes per day during the week and about 45 minutes per day on weekends on average. Most people in SoCal aren't surfing, golfing and playing tennis everyday - even though the weather totally supports it.

What's the typical Southern California office worker doing on his lunch hour on a sunny 72 degree day in February? He's inside playing cards, going online, reading the newspaper, reading a book, hitting on the office assistants, etc. Just like the guy in Buffalo.
I'd really like to know the source of these stats Charles because ... all you would have to do last weekend was go to Carmel Beach, Big Sur, or any one of the other hundred gorgeous places along Highway 1 ...

And you would have seen a TON of Californians out enjoying the weather. I will guarantee you: all of the parking lots were full, traffic was backed up at the beaches, etc.

And I'm sorry ... after living in Colorado you should know this. Snow sucks ... even if you're indoors. Freezing is still freezing. That is one of the major reasons you've now had to move twice ... right? I believe you said your wife couldn't stand the snow in Colorado

So ... please don't tell me the grass is all that green out of state because it's not ... especially in Buffalo.

And, being from Louisiana myself ... I also know that Alabama heat and humidity isn't all that great either.


Last edited by sheri257; 11-20-2008 at 10:01 AM..
 
Old 11-20-2008, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,338 posts, read 93,460,004 times
Reputation: 17827
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
I'd really like to know the source of these stats Charles because ... all you would have to do last weekend was go to Carmel Beach, Big Sur, or any one of the other hundred gorgeous places along Highway 1 ...

And you would have seen a TON of Californians out enjoying the weather. I will guarantee you: all of the parking lots were full, traffic was backed up at the beaches, etc.

And I'm sorry ... after living in Colorado you should know this. Snow sucks ... even if you're indoors. Freezing is still freezing. That is one of the major reasons you've now had to move twice ... right? I believe you said your wife couldn't stand the snow in Colorado

So ... please don't tell me the grass is all that green out of state because it's not ... especially in Buffalo.

And, being from Louisiana myself ... I also know that Alabama heat and humidity isn't all that great either.

The wind and cold were the third biggest reasons behind 1) no kids in our neighborhood (this was wiping us out) and 2) more job opportunities for me in HSV (highest concentration of engineers in the US). But yes, I think I do now appreciate not living in a colder environment. Mostly because of the icy roads - scary as hell for me. We were at 7300 feet, much harsher than COS or DEN too. And yes, I miss not being able to swim 365 outdoors like I did in CA for 20 years. But DEN and COS are great towns and I would recommend them and HSV for middle class families with kids.

But these are trade offs we think are better for us. If we had no kids then we may not have made them. Both my wife and I would have jobs and disposable time and disposable income. Right now, I am the only worker as she is at home with a 14 month old and three other kids under 10.

I'll also admit we are a bit homesick for California, not because of it's virtues but because we are both native Californians, we're both UCSB grads, and it is our home and our (elderly and ill) parents live there.
 
Old 11-20-2008, 10:04 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 5,280,481 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
But yes, I think I do now appreciate not living in a colder environment. Mostly because of the icy roads - scary as hell for me. We were at 7300 feet, much harsher than COS or DEN too.
Yeah, I lived in mountain snow too ... roads are very scary. We had four wheel drive AND snow tires yet ... my husband still skidded out on some black and went over a cliff. A tree was all that saved him. But I digress ...

So ... why imply that living in Buffalo is the same as living in California since people supposedly spend so much time indoors ...

It's very misleading, to say the least.
 
Old 11-20-2008, 11:46 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 5,280,481 times
Reputation: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
To just give an example of the different costs between California vs other areas take Austin, TX. Austin, TX has a low unemployment rate and a good job market. Take the example of a married couple (no kids) making $150k a year. In terms of just taxes and real estate here is how they compare:

CA TX
Income tax........$600/month...........$0
Property Tax......$416/month...........$458/month
Mortgage...........$2,500/month........$1,260/month

The real estate numbers are based on a house that costs $500,000 assuming down 20% and 30/fixed mortgage. Where as Austin is $250,000 assuming 20% down and 30/fixed. Comparable homes are roughly half the cost in Austin vs major California cities/areas. And just in case anybody doubts this here are some listings from Austin:

10128 Channel Island, Austin, TX, 78747 - MLS ID#6806022 - Single Family Home Real Estate - REALTOR.com® (http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?loc=Austin%2c+Texas&ml=8&mxp=25 0000&bd=4&typ=1&sqft=7&pfbm=10&sid=5655c3920acb46f 18fed0f3b2af5aea4&lid=1104067497&lsn=3&srcnt=512 - broken link)
15204 Bowling LN, Lakeway, TX, 78734 - MLS ID#2872416 - Single Family Home Real Estate - REALTOR.com® (http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?pg=4&srcnt=512&srcnt=512&sid=56 55c3920acb46f18fed0f3b2af5aea4&loc=Austin%2c+Texas &ml=8&mxp=250000&bd=4&typ=1&sqft=7&pfbm=10&fhpg=4& lid=1096594460&lsn=36 - broken link)

There are ton of such homes. These would be at least $500,000 in any major city (or close suburb) in California right now.

So that is an extra $1,798/month just for the pleasure of living in California and doesn't even include the fact that a number of other things are cheaper in Texas.

So I ask what in California is worth $1,798/month?
Since we seem to be somewhat obsessed with my income (or supposed lack thereof) ... I can tell you as a nurse in Texas, I would easily be making less than half of what I make here. Plus, the working conditions would, for lack of a better term, totally suck since there are no unions there.

However, if the pay would be about the same or, even a little less then ... Texas is probably a cost saver. I have lived in Austin ... if I HAD to live in Texas again Austin would would be the place but, unless money savings is the only objective ...I think you basically have to be conservative minded to be happy there. It is an entirely different culture and it was definitely NOT for me.

As we've discussed at length, I'm not paying $500K for my California house ... only $250K yet ... every weekend I can still drive Highway 1, walk the beach in Carmel, hike in the redwoods etc. To me, at least, it's priceless.

Last edited by sheri257; 11-20-2008 at 12:47 PM..
 
Old 11-20-2008, 12:16 PM
 
Location: los angeles
5,032 posts, read 12,571,364 times
Reputation: 1508
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
Since we seem to be somewhat obsessed with my income (or supposed lack thereof) ... I can tell you at as a nurse in Texas, I would easily be making less than half of what I make here. Plus, the working conditions would, for lack of a better term, totally suck since there are no unions there.

However, if the pay would be about the same or, even a little less then ... Texas is probably a cost saver. I have lived in Austin ... if I HAD to live in Texas again Austin would would be the place but, unless money savings is the only objective ...I think you basically have to be conservative minded to be happy there. It is an entirely different culture and it was definitely NOT for me.

As we've discussed at length, I'm not paying $500K for my California house ... only $250K yet ... every weekend I can still drive Highway 1, walk the beach in Carmel, hike in the redwoods etc. To me, at least, it's priceless.
You're making some great points how California compensates for the extra cost of living here. Union members have good representation & strength in California [none of them are moving anywhere]. But even my friends who are not union members, there's no exodus out-of-state but rather homeowners & parents invested in the community. Plus, California regulates employment practices much more than practically any state in favor of the employee. Most of my neighbors have been here well over 20 years.

Your comments about climate can not be ignored. Can one imagine the cooling & heating bills of Texas or Arkansas or Alabama? In Los Angeles we are able to open all the windows almost every night during summer & let the cool air in. In winter we open the house every day to let the warm air in. When our central air broke down we realized how little we actually needed heat [besides a few space heaters & fireplace]. By summer we cried "uncle" & invested in a new system. Yes, we do not go outside and bask in the sunshine every day but we can knowing that it will be just about perfect all year long.
 
Old 11-20-2008, 12:25 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
18,967 posts, read 32,448,239 times
Reputation: 13610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
What I mean there is that Southern California has more to build a real economy on so when all is said and done, it should come out stronger than Northern California. I base this on my experience of business in both cities not hard economic data.
I really don't think a region with a less educated populace and more negative quality of life issues is in a better position to come out ahead. I love SoCal but I don't see any real advantages it has over NorCal.

Quote:
You seem to be more interested in suggesting my motivation for making the claims though, which is banal.
So is assuming the Bay Area will falter to the level of Detroit b/c of it's "lefty" policies. SF has managed to hold up relatively well despite all the doom and gloom people always predict for it.
Quote:
Actually it exemplifies your ignorance of both these cities and their history. Have you even stepped foot in either of these cities?
Neither had an economy as diverse as the Bay Area's as far as I'm aware, they were both essentially one industry towns, which the Bay Area is not. Plus the Bay Area has a lot more human capital than most places in the US, which will always make it an attractive place.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion based on whatever but just realize that's all it is, an opinion and speculation.

Quote:
I started this thread to talk about essentially the cost benefit analysis of living in California vs other locations with lower cost of living.
Some of the benefits people see in living here you can't always quantify. Yes there are cheaper and more livable places to live than CA, that has been pretty obvious for a while now. Honestly its like you want people to share your same point of view on the state and are looking for validation. When the economy was in the crapper in the early 1990's CA, and especially SoCal, lost a ton of people. These are cycles that CA has weathered before and will again. Homes prices are coming down to a lot more reasonable levels and more people are able to afford homes.

It makes sense for some to leave, especially if they don't care that much about moving away from family, friends, and don't value the good qualities about CA as much as others. To each their own....
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