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Just because you've never taken a dime from the state, do you believe the general population should be uneducated? My son is currently at Pierce College, a community college. I don't know yet what the budget cuts to education are going to mean to the community college system, but the Cal State officials just voted for a 20% fee increase!
I'm middle class. I make a little over $50,000 a year, which doesn't go very far in So-Cal. My son is going to have to get loans (good luck, with the student loan pool drying up!) to have a shot at finishing his bachelor's degree at CSUN (Cal State Northridge). He'll probably end up with the same debt load that my daughter did when she went to UC Berkeley for two years ($9,000 total in student loans). That sucks and is grossly unfair; he may pay the same or more for a lower quality education. And this is IF he can even get loans in the first place, mind you.
What would you have him do? Stay stuck in a dead-end job, like being a bagger/checker at Ralph's, making a whopping $8.50 an hour? How is he supposed to support himself? How is he supposed to ever move out, and become a functioning, independent adult? How is he supposed to better himself? Education is key, and I hate to see that door slamming shut - not only for him, but for thousands and thousands of other students!
I probably shouldn't take your post so personally, but honestly, I'm fed up with people running around yelling, "No new taxes! No new taxes!" in the face of such a huge budget deficit. Give me your phone number; I'll have my son call you when he can no longer afford to go to college. What advice would you give him?
Somehow people in the rest of the country manage to go to college and get jobs without college being subsidized as heavily by the state. If anything, the state has devalued a college diploma by making it so easy and cheap to get. Sorry, the state's broke and people are going to have to learn to take care of themselves and not look to big daddy government to pay for everything.
Somehow people in the rest of the country manage to go to college and get jobs without college being subsidized as heavily by the state. If anything, the state has devalued a college diploma by making it so easy and cheap to get. Sorry, the state's broke and people are going to have to learn to take care of themselves and not look to big daddy government to pay for everything.
I agree ! The california gravy train is over. Many have had it VERY good here in ca. Those days are long gone now. Community college is a option for many. Oh...nothing wrong with bagging groceries for a living. Lots of people in ca are without work (like me). I would have no problem bagging anything for $8.50 hr. I dont live a fancy/expensive life style & i dont waste money.
We have been able to boast of low cost/great higher education opportunities for a long time now. When my friends moved to NJ and told me what it cost for their kids to go to college (University and community) it was a shock. We have had it so good for so long ... and yet we STILL subsidize so many people. That has to make you stop and think. At some point, someone, somewhere is ALWAYS going to be 'just below the line' and unable to afford something but we can't let that drive our financials. We just can't.
Call me at Klondike-555 and cry me a river, would you?
As for your son (or whomever)?
That's not my problem. To be quite frank (can I call you Frank?), I don't give a flying "F" about what he thinks are "his" problems. We all have them. We all find ways to deal with them. Those of us that are smart do it legally, ethically, and honestly. And we eventually become better people for it. And unless you are lucky at the Lottery, there are no shortcuts in life. EVERYONE has to "pay their dues" at some point, whether it's working your way through school at dead end jobs or else go straight to work and build valuable and marketable experience by starting at some entry-level, thankless grunt job and work your butt off and get promoted and build the so-called "good life" incrementally. Since when was a 6 bedroom, 4000 sq foot house, his and hers Cadillac Escalades, and jet skis for the boat and two kids dressed with all the latest fashions from Macys and all by the age of 30 a birthright? Todays 30 and under generation needs to be brought down to earth with respect to what their demands and expectations are. It's up to them. Do they want to make a proverbial "emergency landing" or would they prefer to stick their nose in the air and wait to be shot down? I should also add that there are likewise no shortage of 40 and up folks who need a refresher course in this paradigm as well.
Life doesn't get spoon fed to you from a silver platter. You want it, it's going to require getting your hands dirty along the way.
So here you go. One of lifes most valuable lessons right here offered for free.
Anyway. Back on subject. Yes. I am one of those irritating "no new taxes" 'obstructionists' folks like you love to complain about. Hey man get real. It's MY money. What gives you the right to not only tell me how I have no control over how to spend it, but to demand that I pay MORE into it on top of that?
College
Health care
Section 8
WIC
-Or any other taxpayer subsidized "safety net". Proponents of these and other publically funded programs all have their arguments on why we need more of whatever it happens to be that they are cheerleading for. Usually it revolves around some variation of the "common" or "greater good" theme. But you know what? Every one of those people with their hands out.....every single one of them....can go pi$$ themselves as far as I'm concerned.
It's one thing to have some "safety nets" in place for those who are genuinely in need and are willing to help themselves. (I'm not THAT heartless, though pretty close) At least you better jump through all kinds of hoops before hitting that net.
I did good for myself. I started out as a boxboy and served fried chicken and delivered pizzas. I've sold stuff door-to-door and spent nights in my car and in fleabag motels.
And now I work in logistics for an oil company and have a good paying career, have a brand new home, plenty in the bank, and a decent (but not lavish....by choice) lifestyle.
How did I do it? By working my butt off and not expecting someone else to foot the bill. Which no one ever did.
Let's do the math here. A Cal State University education just increased to about $4,100 per semester. Let's divide $4,100 by $8.50/hour. That's 482.5 hours. However, taxes are withheld from that $8.50/hour, so it's really more like $6/hour. Dividing $4,100 by $6/hour = 683 hours. Most part time jobs only offer 20-30 hours per week, but let's be generous and say that our employee in this example gets 35 hours a week (this is impossible while going to school full time, of course). At that rate, it would take him or her twenty weeks to earn enough money for one semester.
This doesn't include the cost of a car (gasoline, insurance) or public transportation.
Last time I looked, summer vacation only lasted twelve weeks. So, would you like to run these numbers by me again and tell me how my son (or any other student) is supposed to work at some dead end job and actually make enough money to pay for their own education? I'm all ears.
As for getting promoted, maybe you haven't heard that the economy is in a recession. Qualified employees are being laid off; who's going to be hired once things improve? Who knows how long it'll be before things get better, anyway? In the meantime, we'll have legions of unemployed or underemployed, very angry young men. Better start thinking of how to put more money back into the prison system; we're going to need it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Des-Lab
EVERYONE has to "pay their dues" at some point, whether it's working your way through school at dead end jobs or else go straight to work and build valuable and marketable experience by starting at some entry-level, thankless grunt job and work your butt off and get promoted and build the so-called "good life" incrementally.
Call me at Klondike-555 and cry me a river, would you?
As for your son (or whomever)?
That's not my problem. To be quite frank (can I call you Frank?), I don't give a flying "F" about what he thinks are "his" problems. We all have them. We all find ways to deal with them. Those of us that are smart do it legally, ethically, and honestly. And we eventually become better people for it. And unless you are lucky at the Lottery, there are no shortcuts in life. EVERYONE has to "pay their dues" at some point, whether it's working your way through school at dead end jobs or else go straight to work and build valuable and marketable experience by starting at some entry-level, thankless grunt job and work your butt off and get promoted and build the so-called "good life" incrementally. Since when was a 6 bedroom, 4000 sq foot house, his and hers Cadillac Escalades, and jet skis for the boat and two kids dressed with all the latest fashions from Macys and all by the age of 30 a birthright? Todays 30 and under generation needs to be brought down to earth with respect to what their demands and expectations are. It's up to them. Do they want to make a proverbial "emergency landing" or would they prefer to stick their nose in the air and wait to be shot down? I should also add that there are likewise no shortage of 40 and up folks who need a refresher course in this paradigm as well.
Life doesn't get spoon fed to you from a silver platter. You want it, it's going to require getting your hands dirty along the way.
So here you go. One of lifes most valuable lessons right here offered for free.
Anyway. Back on subject. Yes. I am one of those irritating "no new taxes" 'obstructionists' folks like you love to complain about. Hey man get real. It's MY money. What gives you the right to not only tell me how I have no control over how to spend it, but to demand that I pay MORE into it on top of that?
College
Health care
Section 8
WIC
-Or any other taxpayer subsidized "safety net". Proponents of these and other publically funded programs all have their arguments on why we need more of whatever it happens to be that they are cheerleading for. Usually it revolves around some variation of the "common" or "greater good" theme. But you know what? Every one of those people with their hands out.....every single one of them....can go pi$$ themselves as far as I'm concerned.
It's one thing to have some "safety nets" in place for those who are genuinely in need and are willing to help themselves. (I'm not THAT heartless, though pretty close) At least you better jump through all kinds of hoops before hitting that net.
I did good for myself. I started out as a boxboy and served fried chicken and delivered pizzas. I've sold stuff door-to-door and spent nights in my car and in fleabag motels.
And now I work in logistics for an oil company and have a good paying career, have a brand new home, plenty in the bank, and a decent (but not lavish....by choice) lifestyle.
How did I do it? By working my butt off and not expecting someone else to foot the bill. Which no one ever did.
You sound very angry, that's not good for your blood pressure
Call me at Klondike-555 and cry me a river, would you?
As for your son (or whomever)?
That's not my problem. To be quite frank (can I call you Frank?), I don't give a flying "F" about what he thinks are "his" problems. We all have them. We all find ways to deal with them. Those of us that are smart do it legally, ethically, and honestly. And we eventually become better people for it. And unless you are lucky at the Lottery, there are no shortcuts in life. EVERYONE has to "pay their dues" at some point, whether it's working your way through school at dead end jobs or else go straight to work and build valuable and marketable experience by starting at some entry-level, thankless grunt job and work your butt off and get promoted and build the so-called "good life" incrementally. Since when was a 6 bedroom, 4000 sq foot house, his and hers Cadillac Escalades, and jet skis for the boat and two kids dressed with all the latest fashions from Macys and all by the age of 30 a birthright? Todays 30 and under generation needs to be brought down to earth with respect to what their demands and expectations are. It's up to them. Do they want to make a proverbial "emergency landing" or would they prefer to stick their nose in the air and wait to be shot down? I should also add that there are likewise no shortage of 40 and up folks who need a refresher course in this paradigm as well.
Life doesn't get spoon fed to you from a silver platter. You want it, it's going to require getting your hands dirty along the way.
So here you go. One of lifes most valuable lessons right here offered for free.
Anyway. Back on subject. Yes. I am one of those irritating "no new taxes" 'obstructionists' folks like you love to complain about. Hey man get real. It's MY money. What gives you the right to not only tell me how I have no control over how to spend it, but to demand that I pay MORE into it on top of that?
College
Health care
Section 8
WIC
-Or any other taxpayer subsidized "safety net". Proponents of these and other publically funded programs all have their arguments on why we need more of whatever it happens to be that they are cheerleading for. Usually it revolves around some variation of the "common" or "greater good" theme. But you know what? Every one of those people with their hands out.....every single one of them....can go pi$$ themselves as far as I'm concerned.
It's one thing to have some "safety nets" in place for those who are genuinely in need and are willing to help themselves. (I'm not THAT heartless, though pretty close) At least you better jump through all kinds of hoops before hitting that net.
I did good for myself. I started out as a boxboy and served fried chicken and delivered pizzas. I've sold stuff door-to-door and spent nights in my car and in fleabag motels.
And now I work in logistics for an oil company and have a good paying career, have a brand new home, plenty in the bank, and a decent (but not lavish....by choice) lifestyle.
How did I do it? By working my butt off and not expecting someone else to foot the bill. Which no one ever did.
i agree with what you're saying, but it's a lot tougher even for those that are working a job like delivering pizza and making fried chicken. there are many people out there who are very hard to survive, but things are just getting more expensive.
i think people are voicing their opinion about how maybe the budget agreement is a little too late...
i don't think people are asking to foot the bill (i'm not), but it's different now. with the current recession, there's seem to be no recovery in sight.
Ad nauseum ad infinitum. To some folks, no make that MOST folks, every item on that list is something that they "have" to have. A necessity in their minds.
If they have the income with enough left over at the end of the month to pay the REAL needs of life like rent or mortgage, a functional, dependable car to get to work, three squares, and so on, then great. Buy whatever you want. But if you are the aforementioned college student or un[der]employed person making $10 an hour, strip all of the items off your monthly budget and THEN come back and tell me you are still destitute.
Prop 13- Only the home you live in
Prop 13- No rental Properties
Prop 13- No Commercial Properties
California had meaningful Home Owner Protection for many years... it was call the Home Owner Exemption...
The legislature flat-out refused to index it for inflation.
$7500 was significant when the average home cost $15000... $7500 didn't mean nearly as much when Prop 13 was passed and means about $100 savings for most today... I save $100 off my $9,000 property tax bill.
The legislature was all too happy to pass the political ball to the voters and the voters spoke by voting in Prop 13 thirty years ago...
I believe the CA constitution would have to be changed to allow a spit tax roll like you suggest... and then how would you handle home based business, those that rent a room out in their home or someone with a duplex that lives in one unit and rents the other?
Prop 13 works because it is simple...
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