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From reading the California forums during the past few months, it seems to me that (and i'm not dissing so. cal) the people in the southern part of the state are feeling the social and economic woes much more so than folks to the north.
I know that everyone (well, almost everyone) has been hit to some degree by this economic crisis but the really embittered posts regarding CA politics, the economy, immigration, etc. seem to come primarily from people in So. California.
I think i'm objective in that observation but maybe not.
The distinction between the coastal south, central and northern parts of CA seems significant and i'm wondering if it's just an issue of population or if there's more to it.
From reading the California forums during the past few months, it seems to me that (and i'm not dissing so. cal) the people in the southern part of the state are feeling the social and economic woes much more so than folks to the north.
I know that everyone (well, almost everyone) has been hit to some degree by this economic crisis but the really embittered posts regarding the CA politics, the economy, immigration, etc. seem to come primarily from people in So. California.
I think i'm objective in that observation but maybe not.
The distinction between the coastal south, central and northern parts of CA seems significant and i'm wondering if it's just an issue of population or if there's more to it.
Before the recession of the early '90s SoCal and NorCal were pretty much equal economically. However that recession hit SoCal much harder than NorCal and seems to have created a permanent regional imbalance. NorCal seems to have created more high paying jobs than SoCal in the last 20 years, retains more large corporations than SoCal, and in the current economic crisis is doing SLIGHTLY better than SoCal. SoCal was never truly able to reinvent itself, it recovered from the '90s recession later than NorCal and did OK during subsequent times of prosperity but not as good as the north. This division now seems to be permanent, with the north essentially being the state's economic engine. Even when real economic recovery comes to the whole state the north will be doing better.
Before the recession of the early '90s SoCal and NorCal were pretty much equal economically. However that recession hit SoCal much harder than NorCal and seems to have created a permanent regional imbalance. NorCal seems to have created more high paying jobs than SoCal in the last 20 years, retains more large corporations than SoCal, and in the current economic crisis is doing SLIGHTLY better than SoCal. SoCal was never truly able to reinvent itself, it recovered from the '90s recession later than NorCal and did OK during subsequent times of prosperity but not as good as the north. This division now seems to be permanent, with the north essentially being the state's economic engine. Even when real economic recovery comes to the whole state the north will be doing better.
Thank you for that.
That's, in large part or wholly, due to Silicon Valley?
And the immigration issue impacts So. CA much, much more?
california weather is THE BEST. san diego is the perfect place to vacation, i lived in big bear for 30 years and the summers there RULE...as far as the economic thang......it sucks....everything was blown out of proportion, then brought back to reality in nano seconds, which left a lot of us californians broke....but the weather and the beautiful blue skies are non comparable
From reading the California forums during the past few months, it seems to me that (and i'm not dissing so. cal) the people in the southern part of the state are feeling the social and economic woes much more so than folks to the north.
I know that everyone (well, almost everyone) has been hit to some degree by this economic crisis but the really embittered posts regarding CA politics, the economy, immigration, etc. seem to come primarily from people in So. California.
I think i'm objective in that observation but maybe not.
The distinction between the coastal south, central and northern parts of CA seems significant and i'm wondering if it's just an issue of population or if there's more to it.
Trust me, your posts about SoCal are not objective at all. It's impossible for some Northern Californians to be objective about SoCal, I know b/c I grew up there.
The way some of you guys base your opinion on the differences in this state from this internet forum is so ridiculous at times. Do you really think that internet forums are a true snapshot of reality for most people? I really don't even encounter or experience much of the negative crap people post on here. Almost everyone I know, who are all happy and content with life here in CA both north and south, don't post on online forums of any sort. Living in both parts of the state is not that different as some people make it sound like. On the surface it appears much different but deep down it's not as much as people think it is.
This is on top of the fact some of you don't take population into account. SoCal has a lot more people than Northern CA so of course more people will be complaining just based on odds. Also SoCal is generally a lot more diverse than NorCal when it comes to ideology/politics so you are going to see a lot more diverse opinions. The people who complain the most tend to be on the conservative side. SoCal has A LOT more areas dominated by conservatives than the Bay Area, which have virtually ZERO areas that I would consider "conservative".
BUT Southern CA is obviously suffering more from this current crisis more so than Northern Ca mainly due to the housing implosion. The Bay Area didn't see the over building than many areas of SoCal did. Instead that overbuilding occured in the Central Valley since the Bay Area has very little land to develop and the strictest growth policies in the state. Really places like Stockton, Modesto, and Tracy and even Sac should be considered part of the Bay Area in ways as their problems related to housing stemmed from high Bay Area prices. Even their **** poor air quality is partially a result of the Bay Area.
And yes immigration is a much bigger deal here as one would expect. It's easier to not be concerned with it as much when you don't live around it. If you were to switch the demographics of the LA metro area and Bay Area I can almost guarantee you the sentiment would be different regarding immigrants.
Also realize than SoCal is NOT just LA or the Inland Empire, plenty of places are do fine. San Diego is doing better than most of SoCal, has much less problems than it too, and has a lower unemployment rate than some Bay Area counties. People seem to treat SoCal as if it's all like LA. One thing I've noticed on this forum and in real life, it's more common for Northern Californians to talk about SoCal than it is the other way around.
Trust me, your posts about SoCal are not objective at all. It's impossible for some Northern Californians to be objective about SoCal, I know b/c I grew up there.
The way some of you guys base your opinion on the differences in this state from this internet forum is so ridiculous at times. Do you really think that internet forums are a true snapshot of reality for most people? I really don't even encounter or experience much of the negative crap people post on here. Almost everyone I know, who are all happy and content with life here in CA both north and south, don't post on online forums of any sort. Living in both parts of the state is not that different as some people make it sound like. On the surface it appears much different but deep down it's not as much as people think it is.
This is on top of the fact some of you don't take population into account. SoCal has a lot more people than Northern CA so of course more people will be complaining just based on odds. Also SoCal is generally a lot more diverse than NorCal when it comes to ideology/politics so you are going to see a lot more diverse opinions. The people who complain the most tend to be on the conservative side. SoCal has A LOT more areas dominated by conservatives than the Bay Area, which have virtually ZERO areas that I would consider "conservative".
BUT Southern CA is obviously suffering more from this current crisis more so than Northern Ca mainly due to the housing implosion. The Bay Area didn't see the over building than many areas of SoCal did. Instead that overbuilding occured in the Central Valley since the Bay Area has very little land to develop and the strictest growth policies in the state. Really places like Stockton, Modesto, and Tracy and even Sac should be considered part of the Bay Area in ways as their problems related to housing stemmed from high Bay Area prices. Even their **** poor air quality is partially a result of the Bay Area.
And yes immigration is a much bigger deal here as one would expect. It's easier to not be concerned with it as much when you don't live around it. If you were to switch the demographics of the LA metro area and Bay Area I can almost guarantee you the sentiment would be different regarding immigrants.
Also realize than SoCal is NOT just LA or the Inland Empire, plenty of places are do fine. San Diego is doing better than most of SoCal, has much less problems than it too, and has a lower unemployment rate than some Bay Area counties. People seem to treat SoCal as if it's all like LA. One thing I've noticed on this forum and in real life, it's more common for Northern Californians to talk about SoCal than it is the other way around.
all i said was that it seems to me that most of the complaints regarding california (particularly in this difficult economy) come from people who live in southern california and i've assumed that it is largely due to both population and more intense feelings and attitudes regarding the immigration issue.
majoun explained it well and i get the sense that he has sufficient clarity and objectivity.
why do you think northern californians talk about so. cal so much more than the other way around?
i'm glad i'm where i am but i'm not against so. cal even though it's not where i would want to live.
People from the Bay Area think the state is headed in the right direction: More taxes, more regulations, more benefits for the "underprivileged", more crowds, more politically correct, more European socialist way of thinking and micro-managing everyone's lives. Why would they complain and leave? They're getting the state they've always wanted.
Would argue that, in many ways, CA is more powerful and charismatic today than at any time in its history....
But CA is a dynamic, Darwinian place, so 38MM people will never achieve at same level nor be equally satisfied with own economic mobility
Consider where, over past 20yrs, the top 10% of graduating classes at world's top 5 colleges have migrated post-grad for their career....suspect Silicon Valley and Manhattan dominate the choices
Where are world's two top engineering schools...Stanford and Berkeley...which have superseded once-great MIT over past 20yrs (Ivies lack a competent engineering school; and Caltech has sadly ceased to be relevant as an engineering school)
Immigration...sure, costly to have too many unskilled, illegal immigrants in CA...but IIRC, Stanford and Berkeley's engineering PhD programs have had ~40-50% immigrant (heavily from India) students for past ~25yrs (and almost none ever leave SiliconValley upon graduating and many are founders of valuable companies and have created many jobs in SV)
Silicon Valley is world's undisputed tech mecca...no region in world has as many $100+Bn (stock mkt value) companies as does SV (not even entire NYC region, incl CT/NY/NJ suburbs); LA region is a relative economic munchkin vs SV when one compares relative wealth today and trajectory of wealth creation over past 25yrs...and likely over next 25+yrs
Likely that future valuable tech start-ups akin to a google or youtube or facebook will be based somewhere in SV...where else in world?
LA region is an economically underachieving, poorly educated economy with vast population....but part of efficiency of any well-run businesses is that less-skilled, lower-wage jobs will continually be exported out of high-cost, high-tax CA to TX or outside US...and poorly-run businesses that don't manage costs and taxes or create profits eventually die
But many affluent guys in SV still view LA's Westside as a phenomenal, convenient wkend playground w/wonderful scenery and excellent food...and with a refreshing capitalist/hedonist ethos vs communist-oriented SF or Palo Alto
Nowhere on planet has the near-perfect weather/topography/fresh produce that SF Peninsula and LA's Westside enjoy, all where many millions live and work, saving countless hours and bucks that our pals in NYC or Chicago or Dallas or Houston spend escaping their nasty weather/topography when possible
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majoun explained it well and i get the sense that he has sufficient clarity and objectivity.
You probably haven't seen some of his other posts. But I'm not necessarily disagreeing with what he said here except for a few things. I don't think it was just the recession that created this imbalance but also the whole illegal immigrants thing too.
Quote:
why do you think northern californians talk about so. cal so much more than the other way around?
It's just been my experience with people and have seen it somewhat on here too. Very generally speaking, some Northern Californians tend to be judgmental about SoCal, make assumptions about it and will talk about the differences more so. Many Southern Californians either like NorCal or are just indifferent and don't care from my experiance.
I probably came off a little testy earlier but some people on here seem to make SoCal out to be such a bad place to live. That just hasn't been my experience here or with many other people I've met. Although I will agree that SoCal has many bad parts that I would never want to live in but it has lots of nice areas too, mainly near the coast or in the mountains.
Last edited by sav858; 07-30-2009 at 01:18 AM..
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