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Melissa, Pay is high in California, for those with the training and or education needed in the modern world. I guess that most of those who complain mightily do not have the financial resources to buy a nice home, or the other material things that most people think they need in order to be happy. There are plenty of people who live in California and are happy.
Regarding the fires, while they make great pictures on the news, wildfire is limited to certain places and times, The wildfire interface with communities is largely a recent problem, due to communities sticking homes further and further into the wild land.
To complain about wildfire is like moving into a bear's cave and complaining about bear attacks.
There really is no reason to lose a structure to fire, acreage yes, California has always burned, the intensity of fire has increased greatly in the last 20 years, the average size of fires before control is established has increased greatly, things are due to the drying of the state, you know, the global warming that the ill educated claim isn't happening.
One could live in the east, Missouri for example, no mountains, no ocean, no wilderness, nowhere to go beyond the reach of a besotted day hiker tossing beer cans along the way, heat, humidity, chiggers. or you could camp by the side of this lake, and realize that it is a pretty darned good state.
There really is no reason to lose a structure to fire, acreage yes, California has always burned, the intensity of fire has increased greatly in the last 20 years, the average size of fires before control is established has increased greatly, things are due to the drying of the state, you know, the global warming that the ill educated claim isn't happening.
.
Or it could be the change in fire prevention policy in this State...
Controlled burns were common sights in my youth... also logging roads make good fire breaks and provide access to some rather inaccessible areas...
Don't forget a number of these fires are attributed to arson...
I now need a permit to remove any tree 6" dia at breast height... the process typically takes 4 to 5 weeks and involves posting the neighborhood and notifying adjacent property owners via postcard of the planned removal and the opportunity to voice objection or concerns... the only exception is for Eucalyptus...
The Lake Tahoe Angora Fire is a prime example of how revised Fire Prevention Policy contributed to the fire's devastation... For years Homeowners would gather the seasonal carpet of pine needles and brush until new Best Management Practices to limit erosion called for leaving Natures Natural Carpet in place... even the regulatory agencies admitted revision of erosion control methods are needed to mitigate fire danger...
So often, we are our own worst enemy...
As for Global Warming... the earth is either warming or it's not... I think the controversy arises when change in earth temperature is attributed to man...
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 11-05-2009 at 10:02 AM..
Reason: typo
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,408,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarks
Melissa, Pay is high in California, for those with the training and or education needed in the modern world. I guess that most of those who complain mightily do not have the financial resources to buy a nice home, or the other material things that most people think they need in order to be happy. There are plenty of people who live in California and are happy.
Regarding the fires, while they make great pictures on the news, wildfire is limited to certain places and times, The wildfire interface with communities is largely a recent problem, due to communities sticking homes further and further into the wild land.
To complain about wildfire is like moving into a bear's cave and complaining about bear attacks.
There really is no reason to lose a structure to fire, acreage yes, California has always burned, the intensity of fire has increased greatly in the last 20 years, the average size of fires before control is established has increased greatly, things are due to the drying of the state, you know, the global warming that the ill educated claim isn't happening.
One could live in the east, Missouri for example, no mountains, no ocean, no wilderness, nowhere to go beyond the reach of a besotted day hiker tossing beer cans along the way, heat, humidity, chiggers. or you could camp by the side of this lake, and realize that it is a pretty darned good state.
The earth has been warming since the last Ice Age. The planet has its cycles. We should take measures to be less destructive/polluters (no doubt), but to blame the warming on mankind is a bit disingenuous. It was warming way before we started polluting.
I suppose one could believe the description an obviously ignorant and horribly provincial individual posted or one could actually visit the state through which both the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers flow, other rivers, lakes and streams abound and half of which is in the Ozarks.
If one were not completely blinded by their insularity they might wander around and discover that in this little state of a mere 5.9 million inhabitants there are 1.5 million acres of national forest of which 78,000 are wilderness.
Now if one wished to relax and if I were so disposed I could invite then to join me on my front deck looking out over beautiful Table Rock Lake with its 800+ miles of shoreline and its beautiful blue waters extending down to a depth of over 900 feet in places.
Granted, Callifornia has a lot of beautiful topography and a wide variety of natural features and wonders, but it doesn't have a patent on glorious wildlife and feasts for the eyes and soul.
Last edited by Curmudgeon; 11-05-2009 at 09:08 AM..
Melissa, Pay is high in California, for those with the training and or education needed in the modern world. I guess that most of those who complain mightily do not have the financial resources to buy a nice home, or the other material things that most people think they need in order to be happy. There are plenty of people who live in California and are happy.
Regarding the fires, while they make great pictures on the news, wildfire is limited to certain places and times, The wildfire interface with communities is largely a recent problem, due to communities sticking homes further and further into the wild land.
To complain about wildfire is like moving into a bear's cave and complaining about bear attacks.
There really is no reason to lose a structure to fire, acreage yes, California has always burned, the intensity of fire has increased greatly in the last 20 years, the average size of fires before control is established has increased greatly, things are due to the drying of the state, you know, the global warming that the ill educated claim isn't happening.
One could live in the east, Missouri for example, no mountains, no ocean, no wilderness, nowhere to go beyond the reach of a besotted day hiker tossing beer cans along the way, heat, humidity, chiggers. or you could camp by the side of this lake, and realize that it is a pretty darned good state.
Where is that?
Eastern Sierras just near the Owens Valley and such?
When I was driving the rigs, that seemed to be the true frontier of California.
Far removed from all the so-called places people like to deem hip.
If you're into trying to look cool and preppy, then California's metro areas are the best bet.
If crowds aren't worth the trouble, then the 395 snaking up the Eastern backside of the state is in a world of its own.
As far as Missouri goes, I've been and stopped there plenty of times and the entire area touched by the Mississippi still gives me that feel-good, Mark Twain vibe.
No matter how much some of the areas there have been built up.
It is important for those who think of moving to this state, or for those who disparage the state to understand that it is vast, half the land area is uninhabited by permanent residences, it is hard to grasp how much land there is for you to explore. It is not my intent to disparage Missouri, but, help out those who hear disparaging remarks about California or who disparage California to understand that in a state of such vastness, general remarks will typically not be particularly accurate. (incidentally Curmudgeon, CA is not my favorite state, there is another, far emptier than even CA, that gets my vote)
Missouri has about 44 million acres, California has 20 million acres of National Forest. If those National Forests could be transfered to Missouri, just short of half the state would be protected forest lands.
1.5 million acres is how much designated wilderness lies between my home and I5. There are 20 million acres of National Forest in CA.
Missouri has 78,000 acres? divided into 8 small areas. A true wilderness will allow one to wander for a week or two, tough to do that on 10,000 acres.
Santa Barbara County has 200,000 acres of wilderness
San Luis Obispo County has 300,000 acres wilderness
Monterey County has 240,00 acres of wilderness
With that we haven't even gotten to the high ranges of CA
14.11 % of the State of California is preserved as Wilderness, [SIZE=2][SIZE=2]
14,085,258 acres to wander about in.
In Missouri 0.16% of the state is preserved Wilderness [SIZE=2][SIZE=2]
71,113 acres to wander about in, the size of a medium sized California ranch.
Another photo of CA for your viewing pleasure, look carefully, there is not one chigger in that entire landscape stretching from the lake at -282 feet to a height of 11,331 feet., below sea level to the summit at. An item of curiosity for you; a number of years ago I rode my bicycle from the top of the ridge to Badwater, establishing the North American record for the greatest vertical drop done by a bicycle.
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Bentstrider, that is the High Sierra. Not only that area is little populated, but, North CA across the Siskyious, the Klamath country, the ranges between I5 and 101 are pretty empty. If you drew a line from just north of San Francisco to Sacramento to Tahoe, the area north of that is roughly the size of Missouri and contains less than a million people. A fine place to be.
From an outsiders point of view I don't know how the heck anyone affords it there!? How could the average person ever have a nice home at those costs? I don't think the weather or anything else would really be worth those outrageous prices. Plus all the fires and stuff; it just really doesn't seem worth it to live there.
Melissa,
Being an outsider now, after having lived there most of my life, I can tell you that most people who are happily living in CA (I know quite a few) are pretty well paid. The county I used to live in had a median household income of $115k last year. Many people I know are above the median in that regard. And these people weren't all college grads or living fancy lifestyles. They simply worked hard to get in good positions and got there in different ways. Some are enduring hard times due to bad decisions, others aren't.
Granted, the easily obtainable credit also played into how so many people have been able to afford homes there. But that has changed quite a bit recently, and housing prices have dropped significantly. Maybe not as much as what some would consider to be in line with median incomes, but it's much closer than it has been in the past decade.
Don't get me wrong - what people consider "nice homes" for the money in other parts of the nation are a bit different in CA due to the higher costs. But you find that many have just accepted that and are content with living in more modest homes in CA compared to what they could be living in elsewhere. I know for us, it will be difficult to accept that when we go back.
And you have to understand the fires are mostly a SoCal issue, at least from what you see on the news. It rarely ever affected NorCal'ers.
As Curmudgeon has said many times - "it's not for everyone". You definitely have to make some sacrifices to live there. But for many of the people I know there, they wouldn't live anywhere else. I know when I moved away, I immediately took on the same attitude as you have. But as time goes by, I've found I've grown to miss "home" more and more - mostly because of the friends and family, but also because of the state itself and all I had gotten from it growing up.
Or it could be the change in fire prevention policy in this State...
Controlled burns were common sights in my youth... also logging roads make good fire breaks and provide access to some rather inaccessible areas...
...
Quote:
Among scientists who study wildfires a broad consensus is developing that global climate change -- caused by increased levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere -- is increasing the risk of these sorts of fires in the West.
U.S. government climate change research shows that the average temperature in the Southwest has increased approximately 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit from a 1960-1979 baseline, and that will increase another 4 to 10 degrees by 2100.
Scientists also warn that the cost of fighting wildfires will also increase as they become more frequent.
"Basically what we know is that across the western United States, both frequency and length of fire season has been increasing in recent decades, since 1990s," said Peter Frumhoff, director of science and policy for the Union of Concerned Scientists, a nonprofit organization that promotes a healthy environment.
"There are many reasons for any particular fire, but basically the (wildfire) pattern is reflection of two things related to higher temperatures - earlier spring snow melt and also higher spring and summer temperatures," he added.
A widely cited 2006 study published in the journal Science entitled "Warming and Earlier Spring Increase Western U.S. Forest Wildfire Activity" examined increases in the length of the forest fire season and size of the fires.
The study authors, all professors or researchers based in California and Arizona, wrote that large wildfire activity in the West increased suddenly in the mid-1980s, with more frequent large fires and an increase in the fire season.
Quote:
also logging roads make good fire breaks
Not much logging in So Cal, and logging roads make nearly useless firebreaks, they are generally located midslope, you need your fire break on the ridgeline.
Not much logging in So Cal, and logging roads make nearly useless firebreaks, they are generally located midslope, you need your fire break on the ridgeline.
No knowledge of Southern CA... Norther California, born and raised...
Fire Chief interviewed during one of the Santa Cruz fires credited saving several homes because of an old Logging Road...
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Too Funny - MO!
