""nothing personal, but poor and moderate income people need hsg. advice too (Los Angeles: apartment, rental)

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by batransplant

Maybe the real question is where do middle class people live in California? Im sure there are some areas...places nobody has ever heard of...like Arcadia or Belmont or Pleasant Hill or Torrance. These are regular, middle class communities where police officers, construction people, bus drivers, grocery store employees, retail sales people, teachers, and nurses live.

Those places do get suggested when you go into the specific city forums. But even middle class people who didn't buy when they could are still often priced out of those areas; you can find a nice rental somewhere like Arcadia as a middle class person, but it's still going to be tough if you want to buy. The traditionally middle class communities in areas like greater LA are increasingly out of reach for people who make middle class salaries. Those who want to buy move to sketchier neighborhoods and then those residents get squeezed out, and so on down the line. I think there's a big gap between middle class people who bought a place ten years ago (or who are covered by rent control) and middle class people who do not own their homes. Housing is what really kills you in most parts of California, or at least that's where we felt it the most in our budget.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

Those places do get suggested when you go into the specific city forums. But even middle class people who didn't buy when they could are still often priced out of those areas; you can find a nice rental somewhere like Arcadia as a middle class person, but it's still going to be tough if you want to buy. The traditionally middle class communities in areas like greater LA are increasingly out of reach for people who make middle class salaries. Those who want to buy move to sketchier neighborhoods and then those residents get squeezed out, and so on down the line. I think there's a big gap between middle class people who bought a place ten years ago (or who are covered by rent control) and middle class people who do not own their homes. Housing is what really kills you in most parts of California, or at least that's where we felt it the most in our budget.

So true. Housing is the single biggest expense in most people's budgets and that's the one thing that's so much more expensive than the rest of the country. If something you spend $100/mo on is twice as expensive in California, no big deal. If something that normally consumes 25-33% of your budget is twice as expensive, that's a BIG problem. With as much money as has been lost in real estate over the past couple of years, the areas I'd want to live in and raise a family in are still way too expensive unless they're 50 miles from a job.

[OC Investor2]

Originally Posted by batransplant

Maybe the real question is where do middle class people live in California? Im sure there are some areas...places nobody has ever heard of...like Arcadia or Belmont or Pleasant Hill or Torrance. These are regular, middle class communities where police officers, construction people, bus drivers, grocery store employees, retail sales people, teachers, and nurses live that are also safe communities and relatively close to urban centers like LA and San Francisco.

Alot of the middle class folks in the communities you are talking about have been there for a long time. They are in houses they have been in for a decade+, paid much less for & pay lower property taxes on (Thanks Prop 13!). If I had a dollar for everytime I've heard people here say they could'nt afford to live where they live now if they were just starting out, I'd be living on the beach!

I don't think most of the regular posters here are getting their jollies smacking down people's CA dreams. We are just trying potray life here as we know and provide a realistic vision for people who often have TV & movie induced stars in there eyes aboput living in CA. I bet you'll probably find the same dynamics in the NYC forum as well.

This forum is for folks interested in getting into the game here in CA. The table stakes here are very high. As such, when people of modest means come looking for advice, they get the responses the OP is concerned about.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by natalie456

Hello.
I am relatively new to city-data. What I am noticing as I read posts and older ones using search function, is that alot of contributors seem to be well off and much of the relocation advice is geared toward the middle and upper classes, thereby ignoring half the population, and even more retirees. So often when I and others ask about where to find safe areas; affluent, well meaning folks give answers that assume the asker is just like them financially; this even tho I am pretty honest about my status as a retiree on strict budget, low income, etc. I would like to see this good forum have more balance in this respect.
natalie456

Natalie, the problem is, there are so few areas in California, especially near major cities that are affordable and safe for a middle income person. What you and I think of as a livable income for retirees probably would put us in the catagory of poor or below mid income in most of California. I don't think these people are really affluent, they just are realistic and know that one can not live on say $30,000 a year in Calif.. I don't know what you income is, but I can pretty well bet people you think are affluent are just average people for Ca standards.

Nita

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by natalie456

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So, 'EscapeCalifornia', those who worked in less affluent jobs, had medical expenses or economic reverses in the market, or other problems should expect to cower in ghettoes, is what I am taking from your response.
natalie456

That is what I was saying as well. Yes, unfortunately this is the case living in California. If one is living on a small, fixed income one needs to find a place to live where that income will go from month to month. There is nothing you or I can do about it. Are you saying, landlords, that maybe can get $1500 for a one bedroom apt should be willing to let people living on fixed incomes rent for 1/2 that much. This isn't the American way, it is called free market.

Nita

[Ultrarunner]

If Prop 13 was to go by the wayside... there would be tens of thousands of retiree's in trouble..

I personally know many and most live off 18 to 24k a year social security checks and live in homes valued between 250 and 400k

[ElectroPlumber]

Originally Posted by natalie456

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So, 'EscapeCalifornia', those who worked in less affluent jobs, had medical expenses or economic reverses in the market, or other problems should expect to cower in ghettoes, is what I am taking from your response.
natalie456

Yes, that is exactly what the situation is. Unfortunately, the U.S. and CA in particular have changed in ways that people in our age groups (I'm 54) are having a hard time dealing with.

You may be having the same problem that I have--namely looking at the situation today with a 1980's viewpoint. We think that we should be entitled to live in nice neighborhoods and enjoy life--after all we did everything that we were told to be successful.

Well, that's a 1980's concept. Somewhere along the way, the rules changed and middle-class folks slipped down to lower middle-class and lower.

So, yes you probably will not be able to live in a nice neighborhood in CA unless you have a very large bank account.

[Rhenzanite]

Originally Posted by ElectroPlumber

Yes, that is exactly what the situation is. Unfortunately, the U.S. and CA in particular have changed in ways that people in our age groups (I'm 54) are having a hard time dealing with.

You may be having the same problem that I have--namely looking at the situation today with a 1980's viewpoint. We think that we should be entitled to live in nice neighborhoods and enjoy life--after all we did everything that we were told to be successful.

Well, that's a 1980's concept. Somewhere along the way, the rules changed and middle-class folks slipped down to lower middle-class and lower.

So, yes you probably will not be able to live in a nice neighborhood in CA unless you have a very large bank account.

There are a couple of places you can live in California (even near the coast) for $30,000 a year or so. What I've noticed is that many people simply don't want people moving in so they don't mention these towns. I survived on 15k a year while going to school and had a nice little studio apartment about 15 miles away from the coast.

If you know where to look and are willing to compromise on a few things, you can make it work. I'm renting 3 bedroom detached house with a big backyard (accepts dogs, too!) for $1100 a month, and I can hear the ocean from my backyard. VERY low crime (close to nonexistent) and lots of natural beauty.

It can be done, but it takes little luck and a lot of perseverence. I would recommend talking to locals...we got our rental through word of mouth.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Many people, like my parents, retired, sold their homes and moved to Arizona or some other place. For them they get more bang for their retirement buck then if they had stayed and they owned their home. They bought it in the 60's for $13,000. Not eveyone can afford this place. I know of plenty others that also left after retirement. If you don't have to work then it doesn't matter where you live I guess. By that time you want to have a place you can afford.

Most of us are not well off, just working on getting that way. Even I don't see myself as well off although I am better off then many. Well off for me is having a house on the beach and one in the hills, having a bigger plane, having a nicer boat, more cars and the ability to send my kids to any school they choose. Having a big bank account and investments would also help. Still working on all that.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

Those places do get suggested when you go into the specific city forums. But even middle class people who didn't buy when they could are still often priced out of those areas; you can find a nice rental somewhere like Arcadia as a middle class person, but it's still going to be tough if you want to buy. The traditionally middle class communities in areas like greater LA are increasingly out of reach for people who make middle class salaries.

Somebody's buying these homes. If not, the prices will drop. Like they are. Until the prices come in line with what people can pay - which they appear to be doing.

For every guy making $200K, the stereotypical California home buyer with a fancy black German car, there are 30 guys making $75K. (I made those numbers up but you get the point and those numbers probably aren't too far off.)

People are starting to be able to afford Southern California, in good school districts too.

"As for home prices, projected weak job and income growth will hurt potential demand for housing. But, there has been a sharp pickup in the county's housing affordability index, helping demand. A homebuyer with a median family income now needs 29.4 percent of that income to purchase a median single-family home in Orange County, as compared with 48.4 percent in 2006."

from

http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/re...ction-job.html