Does the US have Sanctuaries like Canada (Nice, Independence: home, live)

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by coyoteskye

Oh my.
Hmmmm.
Well, there are many people who see the "shadow side" of nationalism and patriotism (i'm one of them) and who also realize that war never, ever, ever brings peace.
A person can love this country but be radically opposed to war.
And a person can love their country without being "patriotic".
The problem (one of them) is that many of the folks who protest against war and against the military are not peaceful and are themselves full of hatred and violence and yet do not acknowledge it.
They are vile and worse than those they hate (imo) as they're hypocrites.
I have a friend who's father fought in Vietnam and during that time was in San Francisco (i guess on leave) and had pigs blood thrown on him by a protester.
That's close to unforgivable.
But there are many sane people (yes, even in Berkley) who are truly peaceful (or striving with all of their heart to be) and don't want to live in a world at war.

I don't know anyone who does.

I don't know who said or wrote it but one of my favorite quotes has always been: "The soldier, above all other men, hates war for he and he alone must suffer and bear the wounds and scars of combat."

[coyoteskye]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I don't know anyone who does.

I don't know who said or wrote it but one of my favorite quotes has always been: "The soldier, above all other men, hates war for he and he alone must suffer and bear the wounds and scars of combat."

I appreciate that and i've heard quite a few military folks who sincerely express that and i believe them.
But why do young men (and women) join the armed forces?
I assume that many do so because they want an education? ... and joined during non-war times.
But it seems that there are a huge amount of young men who want to be part of war.
Also, are there any military minds that understand that war will never bring peace? ... no matter what the rationalizations are for any given military situation?

[Clarks]

boys must become men. In most societies boys become men through warfare. Our society is composed of Males in there 20's and 30's and on up who are still boys. They never went through the crucible. We try to replace war with sport, but, it isn't the same.

[Clarks]

It would be helpful if the pooorster had all the facts. The City of Berkeley ordered its Fire Engines to remove Four foot by 6 foot cloth flags for one day until they installed smaller ones. They did this to prevent protesters from grabbing the flags and burning them.

No, it is very different than your slur against Berkeley.

[coyoteskye]

Originally Posted by Clarks

boys must become men. In most societies boys become men through warfare. Our society is composed of Males in there 20's and 30's and on up who are still boys. They never went through the crucible. We try to replace war with sport, but, it isn't the same.

Well that suggests that all the men out there who haven't fought in a war are not men.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by coyoteskye

I appreciate that and i've heard quite a few military folks who sincerely express that and i believe them.
But why do young men (and women) join the armed forces?
I assume that many do so because they want an education? ... and joined during non-war times.
But it seems that there are a huge amount of young men who want to be part of war.
Also, are there any military minds that understand that war will never bring peace? ... no matter what the rationalizations are for any given military situation?

Clarks summed it up quite well.

Also, don't forget that most join the military in their late teens/early 20s. To them it's a real adventure as well as a rite of passage into manhood. Ask them after their initial training why they joined and you'll hear such things as "my country needs me," it's a family tradition," "I wanted to do something important" along with "I couldn't find a job," "I wanted to stay out of trouble" and "to pay for my education."

Talk to them again returning from their first combat tour and the idealism has likely waned and, for those who re-enlist, been replaced with a true sense of place, service and belonging as well as deep feelings of kinship with and obligation towards their fellow soldiers.

As for the last question, I'm sure there are. After all, wasn't WW I called, "The war to end all wars?" Look how well that worked!

[Fontucky]

Originally Posted by coyoteskye

But why do young men (and women) join the armed forces?

I joined (1973) because I thought how cool it was that they'd pay me to play with machine guns and heavy weapons. Of course, being a stupid kid, the thought of carrying all that crap for miles and miles never crossed my mind. They're called "heavy weapons" for a reason.

Plus there was a healthy dose of "all the males in the family before you served their country" familial guilt tripping.

It grew me up, got me college. It was worth it.

[elisaa]

Originally Posted by coyoteskye

I bet it's beautiful though. Yes?

You know, there are times when it really is beautiful. Like when the snow falls really slowly and softly and glistens on it's way to the ground. Especially in the middle of the night when most people are sleeping. A soft blanket of it covers the earth and it's so clean and white that it has a bluish hue to it...almost spiritual. It usually is quite warm when that happens. So yes! at times it is beautiful. When the real cold kicks in though...it actually hurts!!! And when you see homeless people dying in the cold temps below 0 degrees on top of city vents trying to stay warm, wrapped in cardboard boxes, that really hurts too! Somehow it seems it would be easier being homeless in a warm climate! But what do I know? I don't think there is any reason or excuse for homelessness in CA. or the US. imo...

[elisaa]

Originally Posted by coyoteskye

I appreciate that and i've heard quite a few military folks who sincerely express that and i believe them.
But why do young men (and women) join the armed forces?
I assume that many do so because they want an education? ... and joined during non-war times.
But it seems that there are a huge amount of young men who want to be part of war.
Also, are there any military minds that understand that war will never bring peace? ... no matter what the rationalizations are for any given military situation?

I know quite a few VN Draft dodgers who were not afraid of the war but who were intelligent enough to see that there was nothing to be gained from going to war. They also knew the political plumbing and machinery behind war which is the same today as was then and has always been.

I recently have met young ones from CA. and the US who say, the only reason they have joined was to feed family and get an education...the sad part being that by the time some of them are finished they can't get work in the chosen field because the competition is so high in private industry that they have to stay within army realms to survive. So it seems it is a life long commitment for some. And it may not be true for all.

[elisaa]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Clarks summed it up quite well.

Also, don't forget that most join the military in their late teens/early 20s. To them it's a real adventure as well as a rite of passage into manhood. Ask them after their initial training why they joined and you'll hear such things as "my country needs me," it's a family tradition," "I wanted to do something important" along with "I couldn't find a job," "I wanted to stay out of trouble" and "to pay for my education."

Talk to them again returning from their first combat tour and the idealism has likely waned and, for those who re-enlist, been replaced with a true sense of place, service and belonging as well as deep feelings of kinship with and obligation towards their fellow soldiers.

As for the last question, I'm sure there are. After all, wasn't WW I called, "The war to end all wars?" Look how well that worked!

All WWII did was prolong the inevitable...the US didn't like how Hitler was going about things because they had a bigger plan in mind called new world order and mass slavery which is what is coming to light right before our eyes. And apathetically we all stand by and wait for it to happen to us rather than become close and help each other to a better freer life.