What Does All This Mean For California??? (appointed, buy)

[gregr266]

Originally Posted by ploopy

i love california. wouldn't live anywhere else

people talk like soup lines are just around the corner. well they have always been here. don't worry, you won't have to live like that

healthcare is great and will remain great. the economy will get better but not much worse. and america is and will always be america unless taken over by another nation, defeated by terrorism, or thrown to the wacky right wingers out there who don't want to pay taxes and want prayer in every school. throwing bricks through windows and slapping Polosi pictures from the balcony of the capital

wacky

california is fine. as is the rest of the nation

and illegal immigration? you mean the drugs flowing over the border for the americans who use them, or the people who come here and do our dirty jobs in the "good times," and we spit on in the bad?

California is the best state in the nation. i wonder if the healthcare bill will take the blame for our impending earthquake? first those voodoo loving haitians....now california pays for americas sins!

Your one of the reasons California is like it is now. That same thinking over the past 20 years is why were are in this postition. Blame the right wingers and yea balme Americas for the immigration problem. Nice

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

But heaven forbid that those of us who are happy with what we have might be a bit concerned by big government tampering with it. After all, it's already done so well with sustainability of Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security, don't you know!

boy isn't that right!!! and anyone who thinks there will not be a way to include illegals is dreaming. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but it isn't far away..

Nita

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by ploopy

i love california. wouldn't live anywhere else

people talk like soup lines are just around the corner. well they have always been here. don't worry, you won't have to live like that

healthcare is great and will remain great. the economy will get better but not much worse. and america is and will always be america unless taken over by another nation, defeated by terrorism, or thrown to the wacky right wingers out there who don't want to pay taxes and want prayer in every school. throwing bricks through windows and slapping Polosi pictures from the balcony of the capital

wacky

california is fine. as is the rest of the nation

and illegal immigration? you mean the drugs flowing over the border for the americans who use them, or the people who come here and do our dirty jobs in the "good times," and we spit on in the bad?

California is the best state in the nation. i wonder if the healthcare bill will take the blame for our impending earthquake? first those voodoo loving haitians....now california pays for americas sins!

Loving your state or country is fine, having your head burried in the sand so you won't see the problems isn't going to make them go away. Calif has more than their share of problems, they have for many years and it isn't going to get much better without some changes. This doesn't mean it is not a great state, my kids are great kids and I have a great husband, but they are not perfect. wake up for heavens sake.

Nita

[BlackShoe]

Originally Posted by ploopy

california is fine. California is the best state in the nation.

Then why have so many people left California, want to leave California, are unhappy in California, or feel trapped in California? If California were fine, this thread would not exist, nor would hundreds of other similar threads and thousands of posts commenting on Californias ills.

[Ceece]

Originally Posted by BlackShoe

Then why have so many people left California, want to leave California, are unhappy in California, or feel trapped in California? If California were fine, this thread would not exist, nor would hundreds of other similar threads and thousands of posts commenting on Californias ills.

I suspect it's mostly people who came from elsewhere and don't understand why they can't get all the good stuff about CA on a midwestern budget or something.

Some natives move because they know their money can go farther elsewhere, in a cheap state.

I don't really know, there has always been a lot of hate, and a lot of jealousy, about CA. The only people who can say for sure "why" are the ones leaving, the ones moving here, and the ones staying. Everyone will have their own experience.

[Delron]

Originally Posted by Ceece

I suspect it's mostly people who came from elsewhere and don't understand why they can't get all the good stuff about CA on a midwestern budget or something.

Some natives move because they know their money can go farther elsewhere, in a cheap state.

I don't really know, there has always been a lot of hate, and a lot of jealousy, about CA. The only people who can say for sure "why" are the ones leaving, the ones moving here, and the ones staying. Everyone will have their own experience.

Yes, and for most Californians, that experience will eventually be similar to the one shown on the left of this picture:



And if you're not in the top 1-5%, okay maybe up to top 10% of earners/houshold income in the state, more than likely you'll be facing living conditions on the left...

The disparity and the divide is continuing to grow at a record pace.

[Floritar]

Yes it is about more government control, but basically the government has always controlled medication, medical training and paying for most healthcare( the elderly and poor consume the most). With people living so much longer, so many more treatments, tests and medications available, cost will inevitably go over 20% GDP, they say babies born now will routinely live to over 100, that will not come cheep. I do think that having the government take care of more healthcare will of course lead to more fraud which is already rampant, cheating on income reporting to obtain the subsidies, overuse of healthcare, and more abuses that we can not even think of , like those that occurred with the cash for clunkers(think taking old engines with titles out of junk yards). The fact is many with pre existing conditions will be able to get insurance, a good thing, problems let untreated are always more difficult to treat,, and the fact is illegal were already getting free health care, by counting them or not they are being treated. Yes, basically those that have good jobs, good plans will probably end up with more expensive plans that cover less with higher deductibles,to pay for those that have no insurance. But we are all used to that already, in all other aspects of government spending and taxing,just look at all those with free school lunch and after care and...,

[k374]

Originally Posted by think first

Correct, the AG does the suing. Their biggest issue is the mandate forcing everyone to buy health insurance. I'm certainly not happy with the current bill, but it's better than nothing.

And nothing is exactly what the ones suing have offered up.

Forcing people to buy a product sets a precedent giving government way too much power. That is extremely dangerous and a threat to our civil freedoms that we take for granted in this country. If we allow the government to mandate that heath insurance (which is basically a product) then they can mandate just about anything else that they think we SHOULD have.

The government is not in the business of making our decision, that is a personal choice in a free country.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Floritar

Yes it is about more government control, but basically the government has always controlled medication, medical training and paying for most healthcare( the elderly and poor consume the most). With people living so much longer, so many more treatments, tests and medications available, cost will inevitably go over 20% GDP...,

This idea that cost increases to 20% of GDP being inevitable is a bunch of BS. Only if we allow it to happen. I'm sure the health care industry loves people who think as you do. That way the industry can continue to do 'business as usual'. Business as usual isn't working. It's time for a completely different way of thinking about and delivering health care. One way or another change is going to happen. The only question is whether we will get real change after we go broke or whether we change before we go broke.

Originally Posted by Floritar

they say babies born now will routinely live to over 100, that will not come cheap....,

Not true on both accounts. 1. Babies born today in the US can expect to live about 78 years. Even in the longset lived countries, life expectancy is about 84 years. Of course, that's an average. We are approaching an age where living to 100 is becoming more common, but it's still quite rare at this point.

Point #2. You know what???? People who actually live to age 100 don't use that much health care!!!!

People who live to age 100 do 5 main things: 1. They eat plant based diets. Meat & poultry may be eaten but sparingly. They don't drink soda or eat processed junk foods. 2. They don't smoke or use drugs. They may drink alcohol, but sparingly. 3. They get regular exercise. 4. They are religious/spiritual. 5. They have close bonds with family/community.

You might want to read The Blue Zones for more:

Amazon.com: The Blue Zones: Lessons for Living Longer From the People Who've Lived the Longest (9781426204005): Dan Buettner: Books


Most of these people are very healthy until very late in their lives. They don't get diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc. If they get these diseases, it is much, much later in their lives.

We all know that expression "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". But we really don't put it into practice. There's very little in our health care system or in the latest health care bill that emphasizes this principle.

[Floritar]

"Forcing people to buy a product sets a precedent giving government way too much power. That is extremely dangerous and a threat to our civil freedoms that we take for granted in this country. If we allow the government to mandate that heath insurance (which is basically a product) then they can mandate just about anything else that they think we SHOULD have" True but with out insurance, those people are basically forcing everyone else who buys insurance or pays taxes to provide them with healthcare, we do not let people bleed to death on the streets, anyone including imigrants, in particular the poor and uninsured can walk into any hospital and get emergency and often other treatment free to them, but at great expense to hospital, which in turn raises the rates on all of the insured premiums and communities taxes. The government has been using its power by forcing the insured and tax payers to pay, and mostly for those that are not citizens