Will California Boycott Arizona? (Oakland: purchase, gated, taxes)
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Kidding aside, I just don't 'get' all the hysteria over this issue. And my sense is that the folks making such a big ruckus,have never been subjected to any direct "harm" by an "illegal", any more than I have, so what's the big deal?
What, the guy selling oranges on the streetcorner is threatening you to buy his stuff, "or else"?! Or the neighbor's gardener has been sizing up your house for a break-in? And all those folks busting their a$$ out in the fields so we can enjoy cheap veggies, are they secretly plotting to overthrow the guvmint?!!
No question there are alot of "illegals", and the laws need to be enforced (starting with employers). But in the larger scheme of things, compared to say, half a Trillion in bailouts for Wall Street crooks, or the $2 Billion a year lost in untaxed oil pumped out of this state, it seems like pretty small potatoes (no pun intended). Especially coming from so many folks I suspect actually have little real contact with any "non-anglos" to begin with. Or maybe that's what this is really all about!? Like the manufactured hysteria re: "welfare queens" of the "Raygun Era", when I believe we used to call them "scapegoats"....
That part of the statement is true but it is the "INDIRECT" contact we are all upset about , (Social cost Educational cost , medical , welfare. ) they are costing you too in Taxes and lost aid to REAL American that have paid their due's . Also "Cheep Veggies " ? Not the one's I have seen in the stores, or do you mean those from CHILLE.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,864 posts, read 9,916,431 times
Reputation: 6659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighter 1
That part of the statement is true but it is the "INDIRECT" contact we are all upset about , (Social cost Educational cost , medical , welfare. ) they are costing you too in Taxes and lost aid to REAL American that have paid their due's . Also "Cheep Veggies " ? Not the one's I have seen in the stores, or do you mean those from CHILLE.
You sound sincere, so allow me to give you a sincere answer, from my own experience (not from a list of "talking points").
All politics ultimately being "local", no doubt the "problem" looks different depending where you live in the state, with SoCal probably bearing the brunt of things. But here in my neck o' the woods in the North Valley, I can only tell you what I see and have direct experience with, especially as a retiree who does a fair amount of local volunteer work, and as a landlord.
And time and again, my "clientele" around here, along with their children, friends and "kin" are overwhelmingly "anglo", and mostly of the "poor white" persuasion (and the welfare stats for even the rest of the state reflect that fact). So I can tell you firsthand that they invariably receive most every possible "public assistance" available, including SSI, food stamps, mental health, special ed., in-home care, social workers, Section 8, you name it. Senior & health services, same thing, for emphysema, diabetes, heart disease and the other end results of a lifetime of bad habits (like chronic smoking). On top of that, they are often the largest segment of the court system, with chronic substance abuse problems, domestic violence, lots of foolish petty crimes, and most distressing, seeing their children get bounced around between the legal system and foster homes, while their parent(s) try to straighten their lives out.
Yet even though this is a major agricultural area, you never see these folks out in the fields, in services and other typical low-skilled, low-wage jobs. Instead what you see over and over are industrious hispanic & asian immigrants (i.e., alot of Hmong/Vietnmese settled here after the Vietnam era), and doing all the work. In fact, I have some hispanic tenants who work 2, and sometimes 3 of these sorts of jobs, so they can take care of their families, maybe send a little money back "home", and have a snazzy truck besides. What's more, they pay their bills on time too!
So that's what informs my opinions (not some rote "spiel", either "for" or "against"). And even if the former folks are "Real Americans, who paid their dues" (what does that mean... they're "entitled" to be taken care of?), regardless, we're still paying for all that "reality", at least as much as we are for the "immigrants" (illegal or otherwise). But with the latter, I figure at least we're getting something in return...
Lately the reaction toward Arizona's new immigrate policy has been harshly critical. The call for an economic boycott of Arizona has been issued by the city of San Francisco. The archbishop of Los Angeles referred to the Arizona law as "German Nazi and Russian Communist techniques." Unless the new law is struck down it is likely that other cities and the state legislature will call for boycotts of Arizona.
Do you think California will officially boycott Arizona?
Boycott them economically HOW???? Do Californians actually vacation there???? I doubt Arizona gives a rip. Most of their snowbirds are from farther up north.
Arizona is a gateway for the invasion of illegals and, as an out-of-state citizen, I applaud Arizona for having a governor with balls. She's got bigger ones than that dork in San Francisco. And, although I'm a jack-Catholic, I don't give 2 turds about the archbishops stand on this.
Why does everyone keep saying if this passes court challenges? What is so different from this versus the federal law regarding illegal immigrants? I'd say they are very similar. Are people going to repeal the federal laws too?
The only difference is the federal government doesn't enforce it for various reasons. I feel republicans need the cheap labor and democrats need the votes. So, again I always point out I don't trust politicians becuase they are politicians.
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Originally Posted by Lifeshadower
Just to correct you, there's no such thing as an "illegal citizen" Either you're a citizen or you're not.
But, looking at it from a legal point of view, I'd be surprised if this even passes the court challenges. I already talked to my friends in Arizona, and they pretty much agree that it may not survive the courts.
I will not boycott Arizona. I will remember who says they are against what Arizona is doing and they will never get my vote (which usually doesn't mean a whole lot but it's all I can do). Meg Whitman lost my vote for going against what Arizona is doing.
Mateo45. I unfortunately had friends who were killed by a drunk driver who was an illegal immigrant with priors convictions for the same. I see things differently than you because of my life experiences. I have been a victim of hit and run by an illegal immigrant (I chased after and caught him). I had a few friends who were stabbed (they all lived) by illegal immigrants when we were in high school. I read the local papers and see how many major drug rings are thwarted by local authorities and I would venture to say most are illegal immigrants. All of the illegal marijuana grows in state/national parks are usually manned by and run by illegal immigrants.
I grew up in a smaller community (75,000 people) that contained a large amount of the migrant farm working type people, usually illegal immigrants. I grew up with it and know the problems associated with it.
Just because you know of a few good ones doesn't outweight the majority of the bad ones. Our hospitals emergency rooms, our schools, and heck even our jails/prisons are overrun with illegal immigrants. Our country has enough problems without all of the illigal immigrants, a vast happen to be illiterate, non-skilled workers. You can probably search my prior posts and see that I say our poor should be in the fields working or doing the manual labor.
You do make a valid point on the laziness of the American culture regardless of race. I agree with you on that.
In the end I think it's absurd to boycott Arizona for doing something the Federal government is afraid or unwilling to do. I am curious to see which states will follow Arizona's lead.
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,171 posts, read 15,047,151 times
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I just got this from a chain email from this corporate attorney, he wanted to share some "fun facts":
IF yOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.
IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET :
* A JOB,
* A DRIVERS LICENSE,
* SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
* WELFARE,
* FOOD STAMPS,
* CREDIT CARDS,
* SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
* FREE EDUCATION,
* FREE HEALTH CARE,
* A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON
* BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE
* THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY’S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON’T GET ENOUGH RESPECT
Why does everyone keep saying if this passes court challenges? What is so different from this versus the federal law regarding illegal immigrants? I'd say they are very similar. Are people going to repeal the federal laws too?
The difference is this in direct violation of the Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Quote:
Article I - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Immigration has always been a Federal Responsibility, not a state responsibility. There hasn't been many Supreme Court cases in the last 10-15 years where States Rights were upheld AS MUCH AS the Federal Government's Rights to enforce their own laws to their OWN interpretation.
There is something to be said that if this law was merely repeating Federal laws to begin with, then it wouldn't be needed. That's what the Federal Government is going to argue on this end to begin with, and Federal Judges would likely agree.
When it comes to violating the civil liberties of any person (note, this includes citizens and non-citizens), this current Supreme Court has been extremely hesitant to sanction such actions since there needs to an extremely compelling reason to violate someone's rights. The litmus test to TAKE AWAY rights, citizens and non-citizens alike, is much higher than giving someone rights for good reason.
Of course, I personally don't think it would get to the Supreme Court to begin with. If something like Proposition 187 didn't even get that far (which violated no one's rights, citizen or non-citizen), what makes people think this will?
Now comes the civil liberties part of it. There is no mention in the Constitution of the word "citizen" anywhere in the Bill of Rights. All it says is "any persons" or "people"
Quote:
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seize
I'm not taking sides here, but these are real Constitutional challenges that need to be considered. Despite the fact that this law was drafted by a Constitutional Scholar in the University of Kansas (source: Kris Kobach - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), he took a risk by basically arguing that this is a supplement to Federal law AND even so, states have a say in how Federal Law is implemented.
It remains to be seen which side will prevail.
The 10th Amendment does exist, but sadly the courts have never really respected the ideas of State Rights using the 10th Amendment as a reason.
Quote:
The only difference is the federal government doesn't enforce it for various reasons. I feel republicans need the cheap labor and democrats need the votes. So, again I always point out I don't trust politicians becuase they are politicians.
And that's the problem. Both parties have waffled on this issue for so long. The Democrats have historically been the party of poor immigrants, while the Republicans have always been the party favoring big business. Both parties WANT this to keep happening, despite what they say in public.
The Republicans change their tune when its midterm or gubernatorial elections. In public, they can always use the "illegal immigrant" ace to get re-elected, but in private they really don't do anything.
That's why nothing has been done for so long. I've always said that as long there is a pull factor (people WILLING to give them jobs at cheaper wages), then the illegals will keep coming. People are so quick to address the push factors (drug wars, poverty, etc etc), but that only means so much.
Quote:
I will not boycott Arizona. I will remember who says they are against what Arizona is doing and they will never get my vote (which usually doesn't mean a whole lot but it's all I can do). Meg Whitman lost my vote for going against what Arizona is doing.
I personally don't do any business with any Arizona companies to begin with, and that is unlikely to change since I'm not in much position nowadays to spend money. It's more of a token gesture anyways. However, the fact that the two of California's major cities (San Francisco and Los Angeles) have canceled their contracts with any businesses/functions in Arizona is telling. Again, I think this is more about pandering to left-wing voters or Latino voters than anything else.
It's funny the same people who support the tea party and are members are not up in arms about this, but at the same time. Obama is taking away all our freedoms. What a joke.
I just got this from a chain email from this corporate attorney, he wanted to share some "fun facts":
IF yOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.
IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET :
* A JOB,
* A DRIVERS LICENSE,
* SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
* WELFARE,
* FOOD STAMPS,
* CREDIT CARDS,
* SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
* FREE EDUCATION,
* FREE HEALTH CARE,
* A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON
* BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE
* THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY’S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON’T GET ENOUGH RESPECT
I love our country!
I wasn't aware communist and oppressive countries were set up like the US. Wow what a genius email. North Korea yeah what a history of welcoming immigrants they have.
How about empowering citizens so they can make citizens' arrests of anyone they suspect to be an illegal alien? Why wait for the cops to do the arresting? White guy with 2nd amendment-sanctioned gun hidden in his crotch sees brown guy down the street acting suspicious. White guy decides "brown guy is an illegal alien". White guy swoops down to perform his constitutional duty to protect the country from invasion. He tackles the brown guy and discovers he just tackled Antonio Villaraigosa.
Do you think Rush Limbaugh would approve of this? Will you get a medal from Rushbo? What do you think, nutjobs?
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