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So what you are saying here is that people who smoke marijuana are not decent people,
they are misguided
are not productive,
well..during grow season they are
don't want to get along with - or disrupt the community/fellow citizens, and do not abide by the laws.
Yes.. this is factually correct
Well....name me one person who totally abides by the laws.
No one
About a month ago a very dear friend who smokes (smoked -RIP- R.M.W). He died of natural causes, but T's not his death that is the focus. In life this man was a big part of the community. Anyone who was in need, and he could be of assistance, he was there. Even when he was incredibly ill, he was volunteering with community activities.
He was well known and loved by all who knew him, even local law enforcement.
Sounds like a person I would have liked
I also care about those I live around and work (yes, work, meaning being productive) with. And I am always careful to be sure I have dressed myself so that I'm not indecent.
Here's a newly published study from Australia that gathered data from a large period of time that included high profile, large scale anti-drug operations and tries to draw some correlations. Note that these raids are specifically for hard drugs: Amphetamines, cocaine, heroin but given that there are people who want to enforce marijuana in the same manner, this data is probably still relevant to this discussion.
Acronyms used in the above:
NSW - New South Wales [Australian state]
ED - Emergency Department [I guess their term for ER]
ATS - Amphetamine Type Substance
UP arrests - Use arrests, Possession arrests
The report used 3 metrics to determine the effects of removing drug supply through seizures:
1.) Arrests for drug related assults
2.) Arrests for Use & Possession (UP arrests)
3.) Number of ER visits, presumably for overdoses
They determined that Cocaine and Amphetamine seizures did not seem to reduce arrests for use and possession, nor were ER visits reduced. If anything, they increased in the short term.
Heroin showed mixed results. More heroin seized + more supplier arrests were observed with fewer use & possession arrests later and fewer ER admissions. However one observed inconsistency is that high supplier arrests were still matched with high ER admissions.
The report lists possible discrepancies but generally concludes that efforts to reduce drug supply generally does not reduce the instances of harm to end users, in the short run.
Here's a newly published study from Australia that gathered data from a large period of time that included high profile, large scale anti-drug operations and tries to draw some correlations. Note that these raids are specifically for hard drugs: Amphetamines, cocaine, heroin but given that there are people who want to enforce marijuana in the same manner, this data is probably still relevant to this discussion.
Acronyms used in the above:
NSW - New South Wales [Australian state]
ED - Emergency Department [I guess their term for ER]
ATS - Amphetamine Type Substance
UP arrests - Use arrests, Possession arrests
The report used 3 metrics to determine the effects of removing drug supply through seizures:
1.) Arrests for drug related assults
2.) Arrests for Use & Possession (UP arrests)
3.) Number of ER visits, presumably for overdoses
They determined that Cocaine and Amphetamine seizures did not seem to reduce arrests for use and possession, nor were ER visits reduced. If anything, they increased in the short term.
Heroin showed mixed results. More heroin seized + more supplier arrests were observed with fewer use & possession arrests later and fewer ER admissions. However one observed inconsistency is that high supplier arrests were still matched with high ER admissions.
The report lists possible discrepancies but generally concludes that efforts to reduce drug supply generally does not reduce the instances of harm to end users, in the short run.
^ Thank you for posting this factual data. Australia is way ahead of us in getting such research out there.
When I have arrested people for large scale possession the users don't go away ...but they go elsewhere... or in the vernacular..displacement ... it doesn't fix the problems of addiction... but it does improve the quality of life in the neighborhood held hostage by growers / producers/ distributors/ dealers / and ultimately users ... all of which add to the degredation of a community.
Dealing with the psychological reasons people use drugs and the destruction they create is bteyond my ability to impact abet one user at a time.
I arrested a man for possession of heroin and being under the influence during a traffic stop... about a month later the same exact scenario occurred again...months later he showed up several hours late for his court trial with family members... he was under the influence. I took him into custody in the courtroom with the approval of the DA and judge.... he was sentenced to custody... he got out and both he and his family contacted me thanking me for forcing him to get clean by being in custody and into a program.
Two years later he is still sober...
Enforcement works one druggie at a time ... in his case success story..
What... if you agree with the report... and I generally do ... do we give up on all these human beings and let them live out a drugged existence at the expense of others
So... yes ..enforcement works... maybe not the way you want but seat of the pants... oh yes it does
There is no short term realistic solution to drug abuse... people harm themselves without regards for others because they are damaged human beings... only therapy..exercise ..healthy food...healthy relationships can reduce that... but seeking solice thru escapism of realtity isn't "fixable"... only manageable
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,135,780 times
Reputation: 3145
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
When I have arrested people for large scale possession the users don't go away ...but they go elsewhere... or in the vernacular..displacement ... it doesn't fix the problems of addiction... but it does improve the quality of life in the neighborhood held hostage by growers / producers/ distributors/ dealers / and ultimately users ... all of which add to the degredation of a community.
Dealing with the psychological reasons people use drugs and the destruction they create is bteyond my ability to impact abet one user at a time.
I arrested a man for possession of heroin and being under the influence during a traffic stop... about a month later the same exact scenario occurred again...months later he showed up several hours late for his court trial with family members... he was under the influence. I took him into custody in the courtroom with the approval of the DA and judge.... he was sentenced to custody... he got out and both he and his family contacted me thanking me for forcing him to get clean by being in custody and into a program.
Two years later he is still sober...
Enforcement works one druggie at a time ... in his case success story..
What... if you agree with the report... and I generally do ... do we give up on all these human beings and let them live out a drugged existence at the expense of others
So... yes ..enforcement works... maybe not the way you want but seat of the pants... oh yes it does
There is no short term realistic solution to drug abuse... people harm themselves without regards for others because they are damaged human beings... only therapy..exercise ..healthy food...healthy relationships can reduce that... but seeking solice thru escapism of realtity isn't "fixable"... only manageable
Changing the conversation to heroin does nothing to further your misguided points about marijuana.
When I have arrested people for large scale possession the users don't go away ...but they go elsewhere... or in the vernacular..displacement ... it doesn't fix the problems of addiction... but it does improve the quality of life in the neighborhood held hostage by growers / producers/ distributors/ dealers / and ultimately users ... all of which add to the degredation of a community.
Dealing with the psychological reasons people use drugs and the destruction they create is bteyond my ability to impact abet one user at a time.
I arrested a man for possession of heroin and being under the influence during a traffic stop... about a month later the same exact scenario occurred again...months later he showed up several hours late for his court trial with family members... he was under the influence. I took him into custody in the courtroom with the approval of the DA and judge.... he was sentenced to custody... he got out and both he and his family contacted me thanking me for forcing him to get clean by being in custody and into a program.
Two years later he is still sober...
Enforcement works one druggie at a time ... in his case success story..
What... if you agree with the report... and I generally do ... do we give up on all these human beings and let them live out a drugged existence at the expense of others
So... yes ..enforcement works... maybe not the way you want but seat of the pants... oh yes it does
There is no short term realistic solution to drug abuse... people harm themselves without regards for others because they are damaged human beings... only therapy..exercise ..healthy food...healthy relationships can reduce that... but seeking solice thru escapism of realtity isn't "fixable"... only manageable
Let's get something straight, hard drugs are nowhere near comparable to marijuana in addictiveness.
Drug addictiveness drive drug related crimes. The number of crimes per user for marijuana versus the hard drugs aren't even comparable. We see many marijuana related crimes because the vast numbers of marijuana users.
The withdrawal for hard drugs like crack, heroine, and meth are so bad that the user will literally do anything to get out of it. The vomitting, aches, and heart palpitations will drive addicts to lie, steal, and kill..literally.
Marijuana is less addictive than tobacco and cant be compared to hard drugs.
Let's get something straight, hard drugs are nowhere near comparable to marijuana in addictiveness.
Drug addictiveness drive drug related crimes. The number of crimes per user for marijuana versus the hard drugs aren't even comparable. We see many marijuana related crimes because the vast numbers of marijuana users.
The withdrawal for hard drugs like crack, heroine, and meth are so bad that the user will literally do anything to get out of it. The vomitting, aches, and heart palpitations will drive addicts to lie, steal, and kill..literally.
Marijuana is less addictive than tobacco and cant be compared to hard drugs.
You just have to love how a discussion about marijuana brings ignoramuses into discussing drugs like heroin, crack, etc. Marijuana is nowhere near those drugs in any sense (its effects, it's addictive qualities, etc). Even the old "gateway drug" argument has been dispelled by many studies in the field. But these people want to revert back to their argument because it goes back to instilling fear in an otherwise outdated argument.
As a lawyer, I try to listen to reasonable and cogent arguments. Thus, when people argue about vehicle fatalities and violent crimes related thereto, I take such considerations into account (although the statistics are murky as to this and we will see if there were any major indicators in CO as they have legalized it for a year). But when people try to put MJ on the same level as heroin, crack etc, I know at that point that their opinions are not worth considering because they've put ZERO effort in analyzing the issues and are working off the same bs that has been scientifically dispelled over and over.
This also applies to people who throw on the same blanket statement calling all smokers stoners, etc and say that they don't contribute anything to society. These people are ignorant and don't deserve two minutes of my time.
What is wrong with you people? Did your parents teach you how to be blind sheep on purpose? Whatever happened to analyzing what the differing experts in the field have to say instead of listening to your local "honest" politican and/or following the likes of Sean Hannity to the last word?
As a lawyer, I try to listen to reasonable and cogent arguments. Thus, when people argue about vehicle fatalities and violent crimes related thereto, I take such considerations into account (although the statistics are murky as to this and we will see if there were any major indicators in CO as they have legalized it for a year). But when people try to put MJ on the same level as heroin, crack etc, I know at that point that their opinions are not worth considering because they've put ZERO effort in analyzing the issues and are working off the same bs that has been scientifically dispelled over and over.
You just have to love how a discussion about marijuana brings ignoramuses into discussing drugs like heroin, crack, etc. Marijuana is nowhere near those drugs in any sense
What is wrong with you people? Did your parents teach you how to be blind sheep on purpose?
Just because you don't agree w/ notmeofficer doesn't mean h/she's a blind sheep.
Quote:
Whatever happened to analyzing what the differing experts in the field have to say instead of listening to your local "honest" politican and/or following the likes of Sean Hannity to the last word?
Listening to our local politician? And who's Sean Hannity?
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