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We have been examining the Diesel Pusher vs. high end 5th wheel for possible full time in the future. I have seen a lot of discussion of this but want to see what people here say.
To me it comes down to primarily having any car you want as your daily driver vs. a big F450 type pick up with an 8 foot bed. But living in less spacious (low ceilings and less wide slides) and more limited layout options.
Other issues that are perhaps less critical to us are:
Nicer ride and much better view while driving, more comfortable and nicer cockpit area with a DP. (Compare an f-450 drivers seat/area to a Newmar cockpit - no comparison really)
If you need an oil change, you do not need to leave your house at a shop for a week.
With a DP if you break down, you have another vehicle to drive for help or to go to a hotel. But then with a 5th wheel, you do not have to have your house towed to a shop. You have to have it towed, but you still have a place to live during repairs.
5th wheel even with a truck (as long as not bought new) is considerably cheaper. At least $50,000 cheaper from what we have seen. However not cheaper if you include the cost of a really cool toad car and/or trailer.
A DP can tow a large enclosed trailer with any car you want plus other stuff in it. When you arrive, you have a garage. You could even tow along a good sized boat if you wanted. Only a few 5th wheels can tow anything (very limited on weight and size) and triple tow is illegal in half the states.
While traveling, in a DP you can go to the bathroom, make a sandwich or go to bed and take a nap without stopping (one person can). When you arrive, it is not too hot or too cold inside for a hour or so.
DP is harder to drive on windy roads and will require you pull over during wind more often.
When parked DP is less shaky/subject to wind or moving around due to activity inside.
If you blow an engine in the pickup, you just replace the engine or the pick up. With the DP you have lost your house and the repair cost is magnitudes higher, plus you have no place to live.
On the other hand diesel engines go 1 million miles (but the supporting components like radiators do not).
DP will have a larger generator, can carry more batteries for solar, bigger/more AC units. Weight is much less of an issue.
5th wheels have much better ground clearance and can be pulled to off road locations sometimes.
DP has better organized/laid out exterior storage and virtually no weight concerns (within reason).
Set up time is faster with DP (but not much 10 minutes vs. half an hour - excluding time to cool or heat a 5th wheel).
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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I have found excellent used DP to be DIRT CHEAP!!! absolute bargains. Often Cheaper than a Class B!
You can easily find a mobile mechanic to do an oil change in 1 hr, or schedule a 2 hr slot at a shop.
many HD trucks have a 'continuous flow oil change'. I change mine once / yr or every 20k, or whenever an oil analysis indicates the need. (seldom) I use full synthetic as a precaution (much better lubricity, Heat resistance, and cold flow)
Secondary filters and oil coolers are helpful.
A solid DP is MUCH easier to drive in Mtns and high wind than a TALL / LONG 5r towed by an underpowered, under braked, under suspensioned pickup
if your 5r toter breaks down, you have to hire (2) tow trucks (one specially equipped for your 5r hitch), then find a place to PARK it... (One of my friends got stuck in PA for all winter having to replace an engine in a blown pickup 3500. The engine shop LOST the block!!! (sent out for boring). At least your DP could probably do an 'inframe' / sleeve replacement). RARELY needed, especially on a low mileage low stress / low use MH. (the DP engines are DESIGNED for 20hrs / day x 7 day/ week HD service. )
It would be RARE to have a major engine failure in a DP (I have known several pickups have blown engines from tugging a high profile 5r)
I have done both,
my mom did both,
(2) friends do FT bumper tow
(4) friends do FT 5r
several friends do DP
We all have our preferences.
If I ever did a 5r again I would use a Class 8 toter (which I hope not to go 5r,) but if I needed to LIVE long term somewhere I couldn't build a shop with apartment... a 5r can work (but is a PITA).
Go hang around some campgrounds and note the 'ease of parking / set-up / disband / hook up / load up / depart' (and resultant insults / family battles / damaged rigs / and pedestals)
Even tho a CDL driver for 40+ yrs (and plenty competent of managing multiple trailers, rigs, and terrain...) I definitely have my preference! And you will have yours.
Most of all... it is how you intend to use it.
Chances are... you will have different 'seasons' / chapters of RV life. Some chapters may prefer a trailer, some a MH. No harm in changing rigs to meet your objectives.
At the moment, and in foreseeable future (for us)
Class B (actually a very small A) 18 - 22 mpg. 22ft (sleeps 6 / rides 8 (belted))
Several USA private properties @ 'destination / desirable' areas, with RV hookups and shops and cabins (+ a rented out main house)
Most trips are fly / drive ; Free buddy pass helps keep flight costs low. (use our own cars (<$800 minivans) located at our destinations, or use rental cars when in strange places (<$20 / day))
(4) 52 mpg road cars (free fuel / wagons / 1200 mile range per tank)
Camping when required (tent / cabin / RV / Car)
Vintage Motorcycles as toads / for other 'adventure' tripping options
future:
will add a Diesel Samurai toad when I get too old for MC's.
Plan to transplant a Diesel into Class B if gas engine ever dies. (unlikely)
Most enjoy staying on farms and helping with harvest / projects / animals / building stuff / senior care needs.
Often stay at Camps (Church / private / horse / sailing / adventure camps) Do maint / projects 'camp-sit' off season in exchange for free housing or RV spot.
Disclosure: at the moment... RV is LESS than 10% of our travel. That has been 50% in the past and likely the future (if fuel prices ever get low again). otherwise... we will fly (often internationally at the moment). If fuel prices STAY high,,, we will go to a WVO Skoolie RV.
For Full FUN in RV's (and GREAT ideas for your next RV!!!) ... go to NZ next USA winter!
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 06-06-2018 at 11:44 PM..
I have found excellent used DP to be DIRT CHEAP!!! absolute bargains. Often Cheaper than a Class B!
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Depends on your definitions I guess. I am finding the nice ones for $250,000 - $350,000 at about five to ten years old. The nice 5th wheels about $150,000, $200,000 when you add a 5 year old diesel truck. I do not consider any of those dirt cheap.
Thank you for your input.
To me the bigger issue with the DP is it is cave-like with the low ceilings and even at the high end, they are not as nice as a top end 5th wheel. They are more like a camper and less like a home. Trade off is the better travel comfort and convenience. The huge thing to me in favor of the DP is the towing capacity. I really like having a cool vintage car.
Alright, you set this question up as it doesn't seem like you've answered it yourself.
Are you going to be Traveling (driving) more? Or are you going to be Staying in one place more. Seems like that makes the decision easier.
I'm way, WAY down the price range with my 3rd iteration ~ first was a tent and feet/motorcycle/car, second was a used cargo van, now I have a new cargo van with DIY conversion. For me, it's simply a dry bed with zero setup. I can stop whenever, where ever and be in my queen sized bed a minute later. But I have no bathroom, no running water, any cooking done inside is with 1lb propane, no heat/AC ~ it's a movable steel tent, a place to sleep and I spend the rest of the time OUTSIDE the vehicle. This is what works for me.... I considered a trailer option but the lack of convenience (wife can get me water, lunch, take a nap, play with the dog, etc... in the van) while in-route didn't appeal nearly as much. Only you will know what's important to you, just make sure you work out what that is ahead of time... and the DP vs trailer will essentially work itself out in the process.
So, consider how you're going to full-time. One location for months on end, maybe only 2~3 locations in a year? Trailer. Constantly moving, 3~4 locations each month? MH. Not Sure? Might be time to buy the cheapest of whichever option seems the most likely (looks like about $30k for a 10 year old DP in the McAllen/Brownsville TX area ~ major mecca for older RVers, it's where my grandparents took their RV for decades prior to just buying a house there.) Live with one for awhile, not even full time, and see how it works. It's a buyers market for used RV's, my in-laws can't even GIVE away a class C they own.
"If you need an oil change (with a PU), you do not need to leave your house (DP) at a shop for a week"....no, not the case with a DP, just pull into a Speedco and be out in an hour or two at the most.
We have been examining the Diesel Pusher vs. high end 5th wheel for possible full time in the future. I have seen a lot of discussion of this but want to see what people here say.
To me it comes down to primarily having any car you want as your daily driver vs. a big F450 type pick up with an 8 foot bed. But living in less spacious (low ceilings and less wide slides) and more limited layout options.
You can't tow just any car behind a DP, unless you do so on a trailer. Where do you put the trailer while you are in a campground? Some cars are not recommended for towing with all four wheels on the ground.
You like diesels because they last longer? Why not a diesel PU to tow your 5r?
You can't tow just any car behind a DP, unless you do so on a trailer. Where do you put the trailer while you are in a campground? Some cars are not recommended for towing with all four wheels on the ground.
You like diesels because they last longer? Why not a diesel PU to tow your 5r?
I intend to get a 20' enclosed trailer and tow a Jensen Interceptor Convertible if we go with a DP. if we are going to someplace with cool off-road places we woudl switch the Jensen for a Jeep (kept at one of the kids houses). Trailer goes in a parking space, or if necessary in a second campsite, or, if necessary in a parking lot nearby. Since we are considering trading a largish house for an RV, we will have a bit of money to play with.
We will mix staying near the various kids/grandkids for maybe half the year and traveling to cool places the other half. In large part it depends on what we feel like doing and what they are doing. If one of them has a kid, I suspect we would likely hang out there for a while to be handy to help out. If they are not doing much interesting, just going tow work, then we will likely go look for cool things to see/do.
I do not think a diesel PU holds up like a 500 HP diesel in a DP. Maybe they do.
We do plan to buy a beater MH to experiment with for a while and see whether the advantages seem worth the nicer living quarters. Tending to lean towards the DP option, but kind of on the edge.
Basically, I am just looking for peoples thoughts and experiences on the DP/5th w. advantages/disadvantages and whether they agree or disagree with the comments/information we have collected to date.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
I intend to get a 20' enclosed trailer and tow a Jensen Interceptor Convertible if we go with a DP. if we are going to someplace with cool off-road places we woudl switch the Jensen for a Jeep (kept at one of the kids houses). ... Since we are considering trading a largish house for an RV, we will have a bit of money to play with.
We will mix staying near the various kids/grandkids for maybe half the year and traveling to cool places the other half. .... we will likely go look for cool things to see/do.
I do not think a diesel PU holds up like a 500 HP diesel in a DP. Maybe they do.
We do plan to buy a beater MH to experiment with for a while and see whether the advantages seem worth the nicer living quarters. Tending to lean towards the DP option, but kind of on the edge.
Basically, I am just looking for peoples thoughts and experiences on the DP/5th w. advantages/disadvantages and whether they agree or disagree with the comments/information we have collected to date.
good info / thoughts from you (and others.)
basically... frequently on the go and most versatility = DP (while seeking your final answer... I would go to the shorter / flexible versions rather than HUGE $400k models to keep more options open... ez resale, flexible stays and available destinations.)
Staying put (mostly) and HAVING to be stuck in your 'mobile house'... = 5r (nice and BIG with at least (2) outside doors and a really big awning (Safe Space AWAY from each other's throat)
on the 'investment side of equation'...
I would look to a $100k - $140k DP (used and under 100k miles and under 32 ft with extra power, cooling, HD hitch (brakes), and suspension). Slides seem to be a MUST HAVE for good resell. I would also consider the BEST brand / engine tranny for EZ resell.
I see most are CAT powered (not my preference for cost of maint and repair, and I find them 'noisier' than Cummins or Euro Diesels.) BUT... they are robust!
For $25k, I would have this unit in a heartbeat (but it may not have the towing capacity you desire). I like SMALL as I like; off road / National Parks / small campgrounds, and I like compact traveling and parking (after herding around triple Class 8 trucks during career / free time 'farmer' hobbies) https://www.rvusa.com/rvs-for-sale/1...-85706-2318734
WARNING: You will find a BUNCH of people who swear / love / die beside their 3500 pickups towing 20,000# high profile 5r's. Fine... let them be (happy). Try them all and decide what suits you. If you go 5r... be prepared to buy a NEW $50k - $70k pickup, as used can be WORN OUT / WRUNG OUT / employee driven (abused) (for some reason...). I can't digest the $$$$$$ my friends pour into their NEW diesel pickups, AND the warranty 'down-time'. (bed liners, custom boxes, new brake controllers, several different hitches till they get one that works, Wheels (19.5)/ tires, CHIPS!, tranny upgrades ($6-$10k), ...) in the end... they have a "Pickup". That dough would buy a LOT of toys / jeeps / fuel / and food.
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 06-07-2018 at 05:01 PM..
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,744 posts, read 58,102,528 times
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Regarding these 20 yr old versions...(Dirt Cheap).
1) They are all pretty low mileage (under 100k, and often under 50 K!!! good to 200+k, probably your entire RV lifespan)
2) They probably have a LOT of life left in them (replace the 'plastics' )
3) Try to find something that has been stored indoors / not used as a family rig. (Look for them in retirement communities)
4) They will have less 'complicated' / electronics / sub-assemblies to fail
5) They will likely be far more 'serviceable' into the future (a LONG time)
6) Your entire capital investment is LESS than the 'depreciation' of a newer unit.
7) Resale is likely 'flat-lined' already. (you are unlikely to lose money on it) my 18 YO Class C is same or slightly more value than when I bought it 12 yrs ago. (Highly desired and out of production)
8) Repairs / incidentals on an old rig is likely substantially LESS than the 'incidentals' of a new rig
9) older rigs are much easier to 'adapt' to common appliances / wiring / conventional repairs
10) older rigs are EXPECTED to have conventional modifications (Will not harm resale, may INCREASE service life /and LOWER replacement / repair costs ) and ADD value! to next owner
11) Expect an older rig to be better built than a newer rig
12) less emission controls / better fuel / service flexibility and economy.
13) Pristine Older rigs are FUN to travel in because you meet many people interested in your rig.
14) would fit your 'classic / custom car' desires
15) You can add really affordable and effective 'updates' (to power train / chassis). You can add a different turbo, rather than a 'chip'. ! I got my last 'turbo' upgrade for FREE, from an owner who had upgraded several times trying to make his 'optimal'. I am satisfied with 'Good-enough'.
16) you will not be afraid / sad to experiment / improve and more importantly USE your RV.
(as with a $50k pickup... that FIRST SCRATCH really hurts your image / pride / resale value)
6) Your entire capital investment is LESS than the 'depreciation' of a newer unit.
(as with a $50k pickup... that FIRST SCRATCH really hurts your image / pride / resale value)
You make some really good points, especially number 6.
We may be a bit different in some ways because we are considering full time living in the RV. I do not think a 32' would be very comfortable full time, but we will look at them. I am concerned about accessibility for anything over 36'. However that extra hundred feet (ish) of living space in a 45' could be critical, when you are talking about 350 vs. 450 feet of living space. That we still have to figure out.
Our intent is not to buy one and sell it, but to use it until we are dead or simply can no longer function well enough to live on our own like that. However we do intend (tentatively) to try to find a smaller beater motor home to experiment with first, both on trips and even just living in it in our yard, so we can see how we do in such a small space for long time periods. I lived in a sailboat with two other people (sometimes more) for a year, but that was a long time ago.
The depreciation is amazing. We will likely be looking at a 10 year old MH or a 5-10 year old 5th wheel. A $600,000 motor-home depreciates to about $200,000 in ten years. 5th wheels do not depreciate quite as fast, but then they are not as expensive either.
With a 5th wheel, we would buy a roughly 5 year old truck. I have always done that and I am pretty good at seeking out an un-abused pick up for a reasonable price. It is all about being patient. Pick-ups also depreciate at an amazing rate. My current truck was $55,000 when new ($62,000 out the door).
I bought it for $18,000 5 years old with just under 70K miles. It is now at 158,000 and going strong (other than recently having to pay $1200 to replace a plugged oil pick up screen , but still not equal to the losses for depreciation on something new). We might look at diesel pick ups, but they seem to cost more than the benefits and I do not know how to work on diesel.
You last comment makes me laugh. When I buy a pickup, I will not consider one that does not have at least a few scratches or dents. I will even pay the same amount of money for one that has some small dents and scratches as one that has none. People are completely befuddled by this. I do not need the stress from getting all mad about the first time I or someone else misses the bed when tossing in a rock or log, or drives too near a tree and makes a scratch. I do get mad about it and the strain that puts on my body is palpable. If there are already scratches and dents, one more is no big deal and i just ignore it.
Want to sell me your truck? Take a hammer to it.
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(and resultant insults / family battles / damaged rigs / and pedestals)
). I can't digest the $$$$$$ my friends pour into their NEW diesel pickups, AND the warranty 'down-time'. (bed liners, custom boxes, new brake controllers, several different hitches till they get one that works, Wheels (19.5)/ tires, CHIPS!, tranny upgrades ($6-$10k), ...) in the end... they have a "Pickup"
. That dough would buy a LOT of toys / jeeps / fuel / and food.
)
, but still not equal to the losses for depreciation on something new). We might look at diesel pick ups, but they seem to cost more than the benefits and I do not know how to work on diesel. 
