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Holy moly all this Harper will do this and Harper will do that with a good dose of "dastardly Americanism" thrown in for good measure!
He's recovered and improved on some spending on health care and while talking about that issue, where is the proof that a Liberal party would perform better? Ontario has a Liberal gov't and our health care is sinking faster than a torpedoed tanker. It's the provinces that run their various health programs NOT the Feds. Problems crop up when you get these wannnabe leaders sticking their noses where it doesn't belong and start making promises they know they cannot force the Provinces to accept unless the Fed's promise the money along with it. Costs Jacko nothing to promise doctors and nurses when he knows the outcome will be negotiations with the Provinces to upgrade their systems and they'll simply sit their with their hands out with a "we'll do it, but you'll have to find the cash for it 'cause we're strapped and we didn't make those promises now, did we"?
Crediting the conservatives with everything from privatized health care to the sky is falling has been the boogeyman platform of the opposition, regardless if provable or not.
What is this "Americanism" I keep hearing about? Is is the "materialism' that has been inherant with every human being since the commencement of the Industrialized Age, beginning in Europe and wandering across the oceans as a result of two world wars? Is it our foreign policy? harldy likely with that one as our foreign policy could not duplicate the U.S.A for a variety of reasons including our strength of purchase with only 30 million or so population along with a heretofore military might measured by "bringing a knife to a gunfight" power.
Gay marriage! Oh for heaven's sake, get a grip! You want to cohabitate, go ahead who gives a rat's patoot? Common law gives you adequate enough legal protections now. Is this really the measure of a governing power, whether they wish to get embroiled in an emotional to and fro over something that is just NOT that important. Get over yourselves already, it's yesterdays news.
Military industrial complex, until we are a super power I don't see us changing the facts of life on this planet to a more "touchy feely" place to live and because Harper is giving a much needed and long overdue focus to our pittance of a military with the purchase of modern equipment to REPLACE the aging stuff they've got now, is no reason to suggest he's all for lobbiests running around the halls of Ottawa dictating to various MP's of their ridings.
I'll give you another assessment of our various parties to oppose your surmisal that our conservatives are aspiring Republicans in disguise. Where would you have stood 40 years ago when the Socreds were accused of being communists or even the NDP upon it's formation? As a rather insular nation, I put it to you that our politicians may in fact not spend one waking minute in ten thousand viewing U.S. politics at all. They may watch with interest insofar as policy and trade legislation and what affects it may have on us.
Out of control spending has nothing to do with "left" or "right". The NDP districts prior to this election have have been balanced. When a left party wants to spend money on social programs or infrastructure, they pay for it by taking money out of wasteful things, and taxing corporations and the wealthy. The idea the conservatives are fiscally responsible because they want to cut taxes on the wealthy and cut social programs is nonsense. The US is screwed up for a variety of reasons, such as bailing out banks and the financial industry recently and their endless wars, not for their awful social welfare and their neglected, decaying infrastructure.
Out of control spending has nothing to do with "left" or "right". The NDP districts prior to this election have have been balanced. When a left party wants to spend money on social programs or infrastructure, they pay for it by taking money out of wasteful things, and taxing corporations and the wealthy. The idea the conservatives are fiscally responsible because they want to cut taxes on the wealthy and cut social programs is nonsense. The US is screwed up for a variety of reasons, such as bailing out banks and the financial industry recently and their endless wars, not for their awful social welfare and their neglected, decaying infrastructure.
Mod Note:
While this may or may not be true, let's stick with discussing Canadian issues on this forum -- we have enough fodder for debate without importing it.
Out of control spending has nothing to do with "left" or "right". The NDP districts prior to this election have have been balanced. When a left party wants to spend money on social programs or infrastructure, they pay for it by taking money out of wasteful things, and taxing corporations and the wealthy. The idea the conservatives are fiscally responsible because they want to cut taxes on the wealthy and cut social programs is nonsense. The US is screwed up for a variety of reasons, such as bailing out banks and the financial industry recently and their endless wars, not for their awful social welfare and their neglected, decaying infrastructure.
There's a few problems with this. First, you're making wild assertations about what is or is not wasteful, and frankly, you have nothing to back it up with. For example, during their early/mid 2000's time in power, the Sask. NDP created 1400 beaurocratic jobs (though the province's population decreased). That's among the most wasteful spending I've ever seen.
Secondly, while taxing corporations and the wealthy is certainly necessary, if you overdo it, you end up driving them away, or shutting down small business. Lowering them brings in investment and allows homegrown companies to expand.
Saskatchewan again is a good example. As corporate tax rates were lowered, investment grew and the province has gone from have-not to have status (second only to Alberta in average income, if memory serves).
Had taxes and royalty rates been kept high, the incentive for companies to move in and exploit resources is lower, and there's a risk (realized in this case) that they won't think it's worth their while.
Lastly, conservatives (at least of the fiscal variety) aren't considered fiscally responsible because they want to cut social programs. It's because of a desire to spend within their means. Social programs are great - when we can afford them. If they prove to be too expensive, it may be time to rethink them and either restructure or remove them.
What I think will happen is that Harper will screw up badly. He's a control freak at heart and I even partly understand that. I think when he won his first minority,he did not want all his newly minted MPs spouting their right-wing, often ignorant nonsense the way they did under Stockwell Day and alienating everyone, and therefore he slammed the lid down hard on them to keep them from upsetting the apple cart.
But I also think it is part of his personality to see everything in black and white and nothing in shades of grey. I think he sees any difference of opinion as something that is against him personally, as opposed to a general difference of opinion - by way of example, the way his staff prevented ordinary citizens from attending Harper's rallies. They confused the control he has over his party with the control they thought they were able to exercise over ordinary citizens.
I don't think that the NDP will ever form a government and they should enjoy their place in the sun while it lasts. I don't think it is a bad thing to have the NDP as the official opposition, particularly because of the right-wing government that is in power. I think being the official opposition will give the NDP a chance to grow and rethink some of the practicality of their ideas instead of being the guy who is so inconsequential that he can afford to yap about everything.
I think the Liberal Party is the natural governing party because it is the middle-of-the-road party. Perhaps the attack ads on Iggy had some impact. Maybe he came across as too intellectual for most. He didn't come across as having much personality, although having read his books, I see him with entirely different eyes. But sometimes perception is reality and it is quite likely true that the Liberals need a more charismatic leader. I am not sure that Trudeau's kid has what it takes to lead the Liberals at this present time though. And the Trudeau name certainly wouldn't go over well in the west.
I think that the NDP made the strides it did in Quebec because Quebecers realised that it was really not helping them one iota to have a party representing them that doesn't have a federalist platform, but that they were not ready to go to the Liberals, for a variety of historical reasons.
I agree. I think Harper will get one term. The next four years are going to be very interesting.
Two things on the type of electoral system used in Canada (which features single-seat districts with winner-take all): it tends to produce results out of whack with the popular vote (i.e. a Conservative majority of Parliament with only 40% of the popular vote; while the combined vote for Liberals and NDP was 49%); and it tends to wide swings based on small changes in public opinion. Consider the fate of the Progressive Conservatives in the 90s, which now became the fate of the Liberals.
I think this system was less worrisome when the party usually in charge - the Liberals - was Centrist. It seems it may be ripe for electoral reform towards one of the various forms of Proportional Representation.
Two things on the type of electoral system used in Canada (which features single-seat districts with winner-take all): it tends to produce results out of whack with the popular vote (i.e. a Conservative majority of Parliament with only 40% of the popular vote; while the combined vote for Liberals and NDP was 49%); and it tends to wide swings based on small changes in public opinion. Consider the fate of the Progressive Conservatives in the 90s, which now became the fate of the Liberals.
I think this system was less worrisome when the party usually in charge - the Liberals - was Centrist. It seems it may be ripe for electoral reform towards one of the various forms of Proportional Representation.
This sounds exactly like the argument the Liberal Democrats in the UK are putting forth. If you want an easy system, then NDP and Liberals need to merge into one party, and have a 2 party system.
Last edited by Cornerguy1; 05-06-2011 at 08:54 PM..
This sounds exactly like the argument the Liberal Democrats in the UK are putting forth. If you want an easy system, then NDP and Liberals need to merge into one party, and have a 2 party system.
My question is a basic question of electoral systems in a democracy and I started another thread to ask what folks think of electoral reform.
Last edited by Cornerguy1; 05-06-2011 at 08:55 PM..
2 more years until I'm done my degree and I'm leaving this country. This elections just give me more incentive.
Don't let the door hit your ass on your way out.
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3. Science funding have been cut significantly throughout the years in Canada, and now with Steven (Jesus lived with the dinosaurs) Harper, who knows what's going to happen.
Jesus lived with the dinosaurs? Can you please provide *any* proof of Harper every stating such fantastic beliefs?
The biggest problem I have with the Looney Left is their constant parading of various Boogeymen and blatant falsehoods in a lame attempt to scare everyone into voting against the conservatives. It simply makes me believe they really don't have much in the way of facts to back up their delusional arguements.
2 more years until I'm done my degree and I'm leaving this country. This elections just give me more incentive.
Are you going to go somewhere more left-wing? Canada is about the most left-wing country in the Anglosphere. Are you attracted to South Africa?
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