Considering moving from USA to Canada...How is life in Canada? (appointed, affordable houses)

[Zoisite]

Originally Posted by ellemint

-- why would Canada accept immigrants from the U.S. ?

For the same reasons Canada accepts immigrants from anywhere. Why would immigrants from America not be acceptable?

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[urban_enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Moneycat

It's very expensive in Canada compared to the USA, and the income is often less than US (especially compared to California), we are both Asians - and we found raising a family here is much harder than in the US because of the cost. Just looking at housing cost, tax, gas price, food and everything else - and every Canadian will tell you it is more expensive here..

Many industries do not exist here - and only very few headquarters are here - American HQs are located in the US and support Canadian market from the US.

Have u been here at all? Take a trip and take a look first, you may be surprised that grass is not always greener - there are much more Canadians moving to the US than the other way around, simply due to the difference in the cost.

Forget about healthcare, it's something Canadians brag about - let me tell u something, the cost I save in gas price if I live in the US each year is enough to pay for the healthcare in the US, not to mention savings in tax, clothing (because of the long winter) and everything else....

Please take no offense, but your view is a bit naive. I am a Canadian who currently lives in Seattle and works in IT.
I can definitely say that the cost of living in desirable places (NYC, LA, SF, Seattle, DC, Chicago) is at least as high as in ,for example, Toronto. I am yet to find a pleasant place to live in the US with reasonable COL. The way I see it the only problem in Canada is to find a job (since most of them are hidden and obtained using connections). It's not that easy, but definitely doable and after that you're all set. A couple of things to mention:
1) it is easier to find a job in the States if you're good, but the job stress is on a different level. I've seen a couple of 26-30 year-old developers whose hair turned grey after several months of stressful work. You're getting paid better, but are pushed stronger as well. It's a personal choice (money vs less stress), but in my experience people who have never worked in a really tough environment tend to overestimate their resilience to stress and underestimate the impact of it on one's health. Yeah, and don't forget that the employers are not required to provide a single paid day off (it's true, some disgraceful companies practice it).
2) You're very naive with respect to healthcare. In my experience the Canadian system is superior as it provides everyone with the basic human right - to receive medical treatment. I don't think you really understand how the system works in the States. It's not Germany where you pay the premiums and never even think about preexisting conditions, copayments, deductibles or the insurance companies walking out of the contract. In most small/medium size companies the insurance covers ~70% of medical costs usually with some deductable. The whole system is pretty complex and gives more rights to insurance companies than to consumers. You do know that the number one reason for bankruptcies in the States is medical bills, right? What savings on gas are you talking about? It's peanuts in comparison with what you would need in case of serious illness. And what happens if you lose a job and need medical treatment (yes, there is Cobra for 6 months, but you need to pay the premiums the company was paying for you and this is when you have no job)?
3) Crime in the States is on a different level. It's considered reasonable/smart to hide at home after 11pm if you live in the city core to avoid problems. Tell that to any Torontonian, and he'll laugh. I know many people here who have been victims of different types of crime (including being robbed at a gun point) and these are normal regular people. It's a real shocker after coming from Canada. All the gun violence and a pro-gun rhetoric don't make it better as well.
4) People in Canada generally look happier and seem to enjoy their lives more. People at my work simply don't believe that many Torontonians travel overseas (Cuba, Dominican Rebuplic, Mexico) at least once a year and that vacations cost <1500 per person including everything. Haha, they think I'm making this up as its very difficult for the American mind to accept that the QOL is higher in Canada.

Yes, you can make more money in the States, the question is if it's worth it. Low crime, good schools, good universities, good government, diverse AND educated population, strong economy - what else would anyone want?

[travis3000]

^Agreed. I just spent a week in NYC and surrounding areas (Brooklyn, Queens, The Bronx, Manhattan) and was talking to many of the locals. I was shocked how little they traveled. They seemed shocked that I had been all over North America as well as other parts of the world. People (many of them) were asking me the population of Canada and were clueless about the country. They were literally shocked when I told them we only had 34 million people. I get the impression that everyone in the US works crazy hours. My best friend from Ohio works for a marketing firm and he literally is working a 60 hour work week, doesn't get home until 8-10pm at night, is always flying down to Miami to do business and doesn't get that much time off. He is always stressed and overworked, as is his entire workforce. Another good friend of mine works for a top marketing firm in Toronto and his schedule is nothing like that. He's been on 2 vacations already this year, works 40 hours a week, and actually has a higher salary than my Ohio friend. These could be a coincidence, but it's a story my US friends tell me is real.

So it depends what you are looking for. To paint Canada in a negative light is not fair. Yes things are more expensive but guess what? We all seem to manage just fine. We make more money yet work less, we live longer, have a better school system, we travel more, we have sex more, contract less STD's, get sick less, have way less crime, and have a better understanding of the world outside of our own country. So while it may be easier to get a job in the US, there are many benefits to being Canadian.

[djmanu]

I think you should stay in the US, better job prospects, better pay and best of all, good climate.
Seriously, coming from south cal, you'll get miserable in winter and politically Canada has also its problems ...
You'll also see that people are colder here, I love californians, most are so nice.
Why don't you try Boston or a North East city (most similar to Canada) ?

[edwardsyzzurphands]

Originally Posted by urban_enthusiast

4) People in Canada generally look happier and seem to enjoy their lives more. People at my work simply don't believe that many Torontonians travel overseas (Cuba, Dominican Rebuplic, Mexico) at least once a year and that vacations cost <1500 per person including everything. Haha, they think I'm making this up as its very difficult for the American mind to accept that the QOL is higher in Canada.

Honestly this is something I could never see eye to eye with many Torontonians is choice of vacations. I would rather stay home than go to an All Inclusive resort. I was convinced to do this once I regretted it from the second day. The food was terrible, you were subjected to spending the majority of your time around other Canadians and non locals and had no opportunity to experience the local culture at all. I am from a Tropical country originally, so spending time on the beach does not impress me in the least bit. Id rather go to a beach in New England than subject myself to an All Inclusive resort surrounded my mindless dolts who can't plan a vacation without someone putting together a package for them.

Originally Posted by travis3000

^Agreed. I just spent a week in NYC and surrounding areas (Brooklyn, Queens, The Bronx, Manhattan) and was talking to many of the locals. I was shocked how little they traveled. They seemed shocked that I had been all over North America as well as other parts of the world. People (many of them) were asking me the population of Canada and were clueless about the country. They were literally shocked when I told them we only had 34 million people. I get the impression that everyone in the US works crazy hours. My best friend from Ohio works for a marketing firm and he literally is working a 60 hour work week, doesn't get home until 8-10pm at night, is always flying down to Miami to do business and doesn't get that much time off. He is always stressed and overworked, as is his entire workforce. Another good friend of mine works for a top marketing firm in Toronto and his schedule is nothing like that. He's been on 2 vacations already this year, works 40 hours a week, and actually has a higher salary than my Ohio friend. These could be a coincidence, but it's a story my US friends tell me is real.

Which NY'ers did you speak to? I lived in NYC for 4 years during my undergrad and found people to be well travelled and have a great understanding of the world. Also your "friend" in Ohio is one example. Both my wife and I work for companies that offer a significantly better benefit packages than our old companies in Toronto. I started out with 24 days vacation, my wife 21. Our health insurance is paid for in full and salaries are considerably higher. Try comparing a salary of someone that works in Healthcare Finance in Boston to Toronto (That line of work hardly even exists in TO) or how much a first year Associate at a law firm makes compared between the two (Toronto first year associates make an average of 89,000/yr, in Boston you don't start at any less than 150,000/yr if you are at a large firm)

I am not naive enough to think that our situation is replicated everywhere throughout the country, but if you are going to compare your friend in Toronto, make sure it is to a similarly sized city, not a low cost of living state like Ohio. The two are not comparable at all.

And about your accusation that Americans do not travel. Upper middle class Americans are very well travelled, equally if not more than their peers in Canada. I would love for you to take a look through my passport and in our circle of friends pages upon pages of stamps is quite common. You wont find Cuba and DR though....so I guess you have us beat there!

[ellemint]

Originally Posted by Zoisite

For the same reasons Canada accepts immigrants from anywhere. Why would immigrants from America not be acceptable?

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I would think most people immigrate because of hardship. We have high unemployment, why would we take immigrants from the wealthiest country in the world. We should take immigrants from war-torn places like the Congo or even Syria. Or places where women are persecuted like Iran.

[Zoisite]

Originally Posted by ellemint

I would think most people immigrate because of hardship. We have high unemployment, why would we take immigrants from the wealthiest country in the world. We should take immigrants from war-torn places like the Congo or even Syria. Or places where women are persecuted like Iran.

Canada does take people from war-torn and oppressed countries. People have all kinds of different reasons for immigrating to new countries but they all have to meet specific criteria to be admissable no matter who they are or what country they come from. I don't think the immigration selection process should be based on the wealth or lack of wealth of a country that an immigrant is coming from. Just because a country is wealthy does not mean its people are all wealthy. To admit people based on their home country's wealth would be rather bigoted and prejudiced against wealthy countries. Furthermore, Canada would end up being a welfare state if it only allowed in people who were poor and oppressed and lacking in skills and education. The whole point of admitting new immigrants is for the improvement and growth of Canada, not for turning it into a poor 3rd world country which is what you are suggesting.

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[ellemint]

Originally Posted by Zoisite

Canada does take people from war-torn and oppressed countries. People have all kinds of different reasons for immigrating to new countries but they all have to meet specific criteria to be admissable no matter who they are or what country they come from. I don't think the immigration selection process should be based on the wealth or lack of wealth of a country that an immigrant is coming from. Just because a country is wealthy does not mean its people are all wealthy. To admit people based on their home country's wealth would be rather bigoted and prejudiced against wealthy countries. Furthermore, Canada would end up being a welfare state if it only allowed in people who were poor and oppressed and lacking in skills and education. The whole point of admitting new immigrants is for the improvement and growth of Canada, not for turning it into a poor 3rd world country which is what you are suggesting.

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I'm sorry, I don't see how Canada is going to offer any American more opportunity for a better life than they will find in the U.S. If you are an entrepreneur there is much more opportunity in the U.S.

From what I can tell from people who have written in with questions on these forums from Americans, the majority want to come here to take advantage of universal health care and our good public education system. Some even say they will return to the U.S. once they've taken advantage of our liberal maternity care policies and free health care for childbirth. Canadians pay a lifetime of high taxes for these services. Why should someone be able to move here and after 3 months residence take advantage of all of these services?

As for affluent educated immigrants, I still think it is unfair to admit them until we have lower unemployment. Like the majority of doctors in Canada now are from foreign countries. Yet Canadian medical schools do not increase their enrollment so that more Canadians could become doctors. I just don't understand it!

[Zoisite]

Originally Posted by ellemint

I'm sorry, I don't see how Canada is going to offer any American more opportunity for a better life than they will find in the U.S. If you are an entrepreneur there is much more opportunity in the U.S.

From what I can tell from people who have written in with questions on these forums from Americans, the majority want to come here to take advantage of universal health care and our good public education system. Some even say they will return to the U.S. once they've taken advantage of our liberal maternity care policies and free health care for childbirth. Canadians pay a lifetime of high taxes for these services. Why should someone be able to move here and after 3 months residence take advantage of all of these services?

As for affluent educated immigrants, I still think it is unfair to admit them until we have lower unemployment. Like the majority of doctors in Canada now are from foreign countries. Yet Canadian medical schools do not increase their enrollment so that more Canadians could become doctors. I just don't understand it!

Sorry, but I find your proprietary attitude puzzling. You say you were originally from Canada then spent 20 years in America then just recently returned to Canada but you have nothing good to say about Canada in any of your posts since your return and have indicated that Canada has nothing good to offer compared to USA.

Feeling so negative about Canada the way you do, why did you return after 20 years away and why are you still here taking advantage of what lifetime Canadians have paid into and you being so proprietary about a place that you so strongly disapprove of and clearly wish that you had not returned to after being away in America for 20 years?

I just don't understand your double standards.

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[ellemint]

I moved back here several months ago, but my parents are lifetime Canadians and have paid Canadian taxes for their entire adult lives. My retired Dad still pays taxes. So that's over 50 years of paying Canadian taxes. So how has my family not paid their due? I moved back for family reasons. Hopefully it's temporary.