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So why is it that when Anglos have this attitude it's suddenly a major human rights violation and the laws must be changed to stop them, but when Francos have this attitude it's totally acceptible?
These people don't seem rude or abrasive from the recording. They may be disadvantaging themselves but I don't see how they're really hurting anyone else. If they want to live an insular English-only existence, so what? Who are they hurting? How are they harming French in Quebec? They said they speak a tiny bit of French and I'm sure they'd try if they had to, when buying something at a store or whatever other situation, but how are they being rude or abrasive simply by not being fluent in French? Why hold them to this standard but not accuse Montreal's unilingual Francophones of harming the Anglo community?
But what happens if more and more people move to Quebec and do this?
Especially in the absence of suasion* or coercion* to learn the main local language, which would be a type of linguistic free-for-all (choose of English or French - it's up to you) like most people here are advocating?
*Which pretty much every society does BTW, in one way or another. The modern way is by providing essential services (education is the key one) in only one language of course.
I hadn't come back to the Canada forum for a while, now I remember why. The bolded is a xenophobic statement if I ever read one.
Apart from not making much sense ("force their language compliance"?? there are Quebecers in Texas??), it's just a fact of life that humans generally feel more comfortable with people who share the same language and cultural references. That's a cornerstone of immigration and tourism all around the world. There's nothing special about Quebecers in that regard.
As for the OP's question, nobody knows if anything's going to happen at all. The PQ controls the agenda, not the actual decisions -- anything they do needs to be sanctioned by one of the other 2 big parties (CAQ or Liberals). So we'll either get a lot of political games within the next few months, or nothing's going to get done at all.
For the record, I think those proposed changes for bill 101 regarding the workplace are stupid. My grandfather worked from roughly 1945-1980 at a Simmons mattress factory in Montreal and when he started, nobody was allowed to speak French even if 99% of the workers were French (pretty much like jambo's dairy shop I guess). That situation started to change with the big social changes of the early 1960s in Quebec, and when Bill 101 was enacted, the job was mostly done, but it was a political statement that had to be made. But now? What's the statement? ?
Some people seem to think that pendulum has begun to swing back in the other direction. I have not yet made up my mind on whether or not they are right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg
I usually agree with Acajack, but... is this thing about Italian restaurants?
Thanks... OK maybe it was a poorly formulated example. It just seems to be that there are quite a few businesses in Quebec (often in quite predominantly francophone areas) that operate in English and that aren't necessarily involved in global high finance where English is the lingua franca. So they are basically operating in English (with mostly francophone staff) because of the boss' whims.
As for employees making complaints - of course, people are always feel comfortable about challenging their boss on a number of issues, right? Every single major societal change we have had has come through people talking about it with their boss, as opposed to legislation. Riiiiiiiiiight. (This last bit is not directed at you barneyg.)
It just seems to be that there are quite a few businesses in Quebec (often in quite predominantly francophone areas) that operate in English and that aren't necessarily involved in global high finance where English is the lingua franca. So they are basically operating in English (with mostly francophone staff) because of the boss' whims.
Isnt the whole Raison d'etre for the Office québécois de la langue française?to eliminate situations like this?One anonymous call and the establishment will be under intensive investigation and i'll guarantee those employees will be speaking French in short order.
Isnt the whole Raison d'etre for the Office québécois de la langue française?to eliminate situations like this?One anonymous call and the establishment will be under intensive investigation and i'll guarantee those employees will be speaking French in short order.
Not if they have less than 50 employees, remember?
I'm sure the OLF would have something to say about an employer demanding his Francophone employees only speak English..
English.With 49 or fewer employees:
Meetings can be held in a language other than French.
No requirement to complete a “francization program,” or obtain a “francization certificate.”
Employers cannot refuse to hire a unilingual French employee unless the company can demonstrate that a second language is required for the job.
Directives from an employer to an employee must be available in French, but certain memos and documentation can be available only in a second language.
Websites and promotional literature destined to a Quebec audience must be available in French.
Information/documentation can be sent outside Quebec in a different language.
Websites and promotional material must be available in French.
Lots of talk, concern and even hysteria on here all of a sudden over the Bill 101 provisions related to language of work. Most of them have been in effect since 1977. Anyone know if there have been any court challenges agains them? And if not, why?
(Most of the court challenges I can think of related to schools and signage.)
I hadn't come back to the Canada forum for a while, now I remember why. The bolded is a xenophobic statement if I ever read one.
Apart from not making much sense ("force their language compliance"?? there are Quebecers in Texas??), it's just a fact of life that humans generally feel more comfortable with people who share the same language and cultural references. That's a cornerstone of immigration and tourism all around the world. There's nothing special about Quebecers in that regard.
As for the OP's question, nobody knows if anything's going to happen at all. The PQ controls the agenda, not the actual decisions -- anything they do needs to be sanctioned by one of the other 2 big parties (CAQ or Liberals). So we'll either get a lot of political games within the next few months, or nothing's going to get done at all.
For the record, I think those proposed changes for bill 101 regarding the workplace are stupid. My grandfather worked from roughly 1945-1980 at a Simmons mattress factory in Montreal and when he started, nobody was allowed to speak French even if 99% of the workers were French (pretty much like jambo's dairy shop I guess). That situation started to change with the big social changes of the early 1960s in Quebec, and when Bill 101 was enacted, the job was mostly done, but it was a political statement that had to be made. But now? What's the statement? I usually agree with Acajack, but... is this thing about Italian restaurants?
Perhaps I wasn't specific enough and left out the "snowbird" designator as I thought everyone would automatically assume it would be those who travel south to escape a winter's blessings and unless you have experienced the phenomena yourself you can hardly call someone who has experienced it xenophobic. Get down off your high horse.
They will indeed cluster and demand that proprietors serving a number of them acquiesce to their demands from everything from observing special holidays and flying the Fluer-d-Lis on the office flag pole to French Canadian days of usage of the community swimming pool. Been there, seen that. They dictate with numbers and the single biggest fear a lot of the RV resorts have is that they will inhabit in numbers so as to drive away the others. They do not view themselves as being guests but rather that hosts should feel grateful for their attendance.
Do some talking to RV'ers and ask questions of them about wherever they go when traveling south and raise the topic of French Canadian presence and then duck.
Xenophobic my azz. Experience it yourself then relate your experience truthfully before assuming to castigate those who've experienced it for decades and are willing to relate the experience
Perhaps I wasn't specific enough and left out the "snowbird" designator as I thought everyone would automatically assume it would be those who travel south to escape a winter's blessings and unless you have experienced the phenomena yourself you can hardly call someone who has experienced it xenophobic. Get down off your high horse.
They will indeed cluster and demand that proprietors serving a number of them acquiesce to their demands from everything from observing special holidays and flying the Fluer-d-Lis on the office flag pole to French Canadian days of usage of the community swimming pool. Been there, seen that. They dictate with numbers and the single biggest fear a lot of the RV resorts have is that they will inhabit in numbers so as to drive away the others. They do not view themselves as being guests but rather that hosts should feel grateful for their attendance.
Do some talking to RV'ers and ask questions of them about wherever they go when traveling south and raise the topic of French Canadian presence and then duck.
Xenophobic my azz. Experience it yourself then relate your experience truthfully before assuming to castigate those who've experienced it for decades and are willing to relate the experience
Barneyg: BruSan has plenty of life experience that have proven to him that French Canadians have very few redeeming human qualities. When called on it he will say that it is only separatists/sovereigntists/PQ supporters he is talking about, but if you look at this post and most of the others he makes this is a slight nuance that he usually eschews*...
Barneyg: BruSan has plenty of life experience that have proven to him that French Canadians have very few redeeming human qualities. When called on it he will say that it is only separatists/sovereigntists/PQ supporters he is talking about, but if you look at this post and most of the others he makes this is a slight nuance that he usually eschews*...
*Hope I used that word correctly here.
You did.
I guess I had the misfortune to meet far too many of the sovereignist variety in both my working career of having to travel to Quebec and do business with a predominantly separatist organization then in later retirement years of RV'ing all over the American southwest and into Mexico.
Wherever they tend to cluster; their "redeeming human qualities", as you so eloquently put it, go by the wayside.
Go ahead and "call me on it" and you'll get the same response again. I have many friends from La Belle Provence who don't hide behind political niceties or correctness and agree with my assessment and also avoid RV resorts where their brethren are known to congregate for that very reason.
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