Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
ellemint said " I simply cannot buy in Canada..." but now you're changing your statement by admitting it's not that you can't buy in Canada but you choose not to move where you can afford to buy within Canada. The states is no different in that regard.
The states are very different in that regard.
All Major (1M +) Canadian cities have become very expensive - while the US has many affordable major cities to choose from.
Sure in both countries there are bargains in rinky dink small towns - but they are cheap for a reason.
Sault Ste. Marie or Sudbury are not comparable to Phoenix, Houston or Atlanta.
I guess I kind of argued against my own argument about comparing Seattle and Vancouver. I agree you can't compare the two cities, they just aren't equal. So is it fair to even compare the two countries? Getting back though to the original statement about Americans having greater economic freedom than Canadians in regards to buying a home though I still don't see why this economic freedom has not related to higher home ownership than in Canada, even before the crash. Surely if they have more money to buy than Canadians they would have a higher home ownership rate. They don't. So is it fair to say they have greater economic freedom to buy a home when they don't use that freedom? After all the cliche American dream is to own a home.
This is the issue I have with that statement.
It is silly to argue that somebody doesn't have freedom because they don't choose to exercise it. Isn't the issue of "choice" the foundation of freedom?
It is silly to argue that somebody doesn't have freedom because they don't choose to exercise it. Isn't the issue of "choice" the foundation of freedom?
This is my frustration. No one has been able to answer the question, that IF the U.S. has greater economic freedom in buying a home than Canada, as you state, why is the percentage of home ownership the same or very close to each other?
Choices and freedom, or perceived freedom are connected. However you stated in an earlier post that the stricter gun laws in Canada, or lack of choices to own a gun, gave a greater sense of freedom.
So is it possible in some bizarre way that the measurements we use grade economic freedom are possibly flawed?
Are Americans so different than us ? Why would they choose not to exercise that freedom many more times than us? I understand after the crash they became wary, but even before the crash the numbers between the two countries are basically the same.
Why?
Who has better apples - Washington or British Columbia?
It seems most of the apples I buy in B.C. are Washington State. We've sent most of good ones overseas. I mean when was the last time you saw a big Red Delicious apple in Vancouver grocery store, like we used to. Even Sun Rype uses foreign apples now.
This is my frustration. No one has been able to answer the question, that IF the U.S. has greater economic freedom in buying a home than Canada, as you state, why is the percentage of home ownership the same or very close to each other?
Choices and freedom, or perceived freedom are connected. However you stated in an earlier post that the stricter gun laws in Canada, or lack of choices to own a gun, gave a greater sense of freedom.
So is it possible in some bizarre way that the measurements we use grade economic freedom are possibly flawed?
Are Americans so different than us ? Why would they choose not to exercise that freedom many more times than us? I understand after the crash they became wary, but even before the crash the numbers between the two countries are basically the same.
Why?
I heard recent stats that stated the average Canadian household has a total debt load equal to 163% of annual income. In the US this figure is under 100%. This is an important figure as it proves Canadians have taken on much more financial liability in order to pursue home ownership than our neighbours to the south.
So to answer your question "IF the U.S. has greater economic freedom in buying a home than Canada, as you state, why is the percentage of home ownership the same or very close to each other?"
It's because Canadians are biting off way more than we can chew because 70% of people feel entitled to own a home - regardless how much it costs. This is not representative of economic freedom.
I heard recent stats that stated the average Canadian household has a total debt load equal to 163% of annual income. In the US this figure is under 100%. This is an important figure as it proves Canadians have taken on much more financial liability in order to pursue home ownership than our neighbours to the south.
So to answer your question "IF the U.S. has greater economic freedom in buying a home than Canada, as you state, why is the percentage of home ownership the same or very close to each other?"
It's because Canadians are biting off way more than we can chew because 70% of people feel entitled to own a home - regardless how much it costs. This is not representative of economic freedom.
Here's an interesting link. I admit I haven't read the whole thing, but it points out that the way in which Canada and the U.S.A. collect stats on disposable income and household debt.They were done very differently until 2008, or started to change 2008. I suspect it takes a few years for it all to fall into place and Stats Canada even states, see below, that not all differences can be reconciled. Stats are indeed a complicated and manipulative thing. From Stats Canada.
"Reconciling Canadian-U.S. measures of household disposable income and household debt
The Canadian System of National Accounts was recently revised to better reflect the new international System of National Accounts 2008 accounting standard. In many cases, Canada has chosen to adopt international definitions and presentations. In some cases, this has resulted in a divergence between Canadian measures of national account information and the United States (U.S.) measures. One difference concerns the measurement of household disposable income and credit market debt. There are two main reasons for the difference—the first involves the institutional units that are included in the household sector in each country, the second involves the definition of disposable income. This note provides users with a reconciliation between Canadian and U.S. measures of household disposable income, debt and the household credit market debt to disposable income ratio. It should be noted that while this note provides a closer alignment between the Canadian and U.S. measures there are differences that cannot be reconciled and therefore the results presented below represent a best effort in making the estimates as compatible as possible."
Here's an interesting link. I admit I haven't read the whole thing, but it points out that the way in which Canada and the U.S.A. collect stats on disposable income and household debt.They were done very differently until 2008, or started to change 2008. I suspect it takes a few years for it all to fall into place and Stats Canada even states, see below, that not all differences can be reconciled. Stats are indeed a complicated and manipulative thing. From Stats Canada.
"Reconciling Canadian-U.S. measures of household disposable income and household debt
The Canadian System of National Accounts was recently revised to better reflect the new international System of National Accounts 2008 accounting standard. In many cases, Canada has chosen to adopt international definitions and presentations. In some cases, this has resulted in a divergence between Canadian measures of national account information and the United States (U.S.) measures. One difference concerns the measurement of household disposable income and credit market debt. There are two main reasons for the difference—the first involves the institutional units that are included in the household sector in each country, the second involves the definition of disposable income. This note provides users with a reconciliation between Canadian and U.S. measures of household disposable income, debt and the household credit market debt to disposable income ratio. It should be noted that while this note provides a closer alignment between the Canadian and U.S. measures there are differences that cannot be reconciled and therefore the results presented below represent a best effort in making the estimates as compatible as possible."
So according to this Canada would be at a ratio of 151% using the US measure. Still not in our favour.
Well yes and no. According to this, stats are collected differently in both countries and as said earlier it's like comparing apples and oranges.
The two countries seem to have different methods of calculating household debt and disposable income, even today.
So I take most of these stats in stride. What will Canada be like in ten years compared to the U.S.? Who knows, but currently figuring out which country is economically freer is not so easy to determine and seems almost subjective and possibly even political. I know my family and friends in the U.S. do not feel economically freer than I.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
