Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-05-2013, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
10,060 posts, read 12,830,921 times
Reputation: 7168

Advertisements

Would this describe the church-and-state relation in Canada?

Laïcité - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-05-2013, 01:23 PM
 
103 posts, read 169,912 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
No it's not state atheism. It's the state not supporting or pushing one religion over the other. Big difference than saying God does not exist.
If you treat all groups the same most would have no issues but when you have people saying you can't have the lords pray or have Christmas party etc yet certain groups get there own room that is what people take issue with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2013, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,592,530 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayme2015 View Post
If you treat all groups the same most would have no issues but when you have people saying you can't have the lords pray or have Christmas party etc yet certain groups get there own room that is what people take issue with.
...and I have no argument there. That is my point. No religion in public institutions, unless it's a course studying religions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2013, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
564 posts, read 1,041,751 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
When you say "eliminate religion from the public sphere" and you mean banning crucifix necklaces, turbans, hijabs and yarmulkes in public schools or banning memorials containing crosses in public parks or not allowing politicians to acknowledge their own religious beliefs; that's where I cross the line. That's state atheism.
I don't want to see anything banned or forced. It is simply my hope that, eventually, reason will prevail over superstition and that humans will conduct themselves in a manner befitting an advanced species. I was once very religious (even thought about going into the United Church as a minister when I was a teen), but there reached a point where, as a thinking person willing to investigate and discover my own conclusions, I simply could not sustain it any longer.

Religion is gradually losing its relevance and power. It shifts and changes with the times, as it always has, but like I said earlier: once you stop believing in a god, that god dies. Thousands have already perished. The current gods will follow as well.

I truly think that one day in the far distant future, people will look at the religions of this current age like we look back at the flat earthers, the Inquisitors, the witch burners, and the slavers. We will wonder how anyone could have believed in such things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2013, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 1,941,555 times
Reputation: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthYorkEd View Post
The Lord's Prayer would be broadcast to the entire class and/or school. No one who is not a Muslim needs to visit or participate in the Muslim prayer room. I don't like religion in any school or public institution; I am only trying to understand why certain things might be permitted and others are not.



I don't say it should be allowed. My ideal society is one that is completely religion-free.
The problem with allowing a prayer room in a school is that you've granted the use of public property for the exclusive use of a particular religion.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with muslims praying at school - but by creating a space solely for the use of some students to the exclusion others the government is tacitly supporting one particular religion over another.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
I agree that we shouldn't broadcast the Lord's Prayer in public schools, and I'm a Christian. I do, however, believe there should be a much longer moment of silence after O Canada. That way it lets people of all religions say a little prayer before their school day begins. The one we have now is far too short. We need to make it at least 1 minute. When you say "eliminate religion from the public sphere" and you mean banning crucifix necklaces, turbans, hijabs and yarmulkes in public schools or banning memorials containing crosses in public parks or not allowing politicians to acknowledge their own religious beliefs; that's where I cross the line. That's state atheism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
No it's not state atheism. It's the state not supporting or pushing one religion over the other. Big difference than saying God does not exist.
Lack of state support of any religion and suppression of individual religious displays are not remotely the same thing, the latter being a direct violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (section 2(b)).

That said, pdw's examples are somewhat mixed. While the banning of crucifix necklaces, turbans, etc. would be a charter violation, the last example (that of crosses in public parks) is not. As per the above example of muslim prayer rooms, allowing a religious display on publicly owned property would be mean tacit government support for it, to the exclusion of others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2013, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,865 posts, read 10,539,536 times
Reputation: 5504
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
I don't know of any special Muslim prayer rooms in any public schools in Quebec.
There was a Muslim prayer room at my Quebec public highschool (although I didn't and don't have problem with that). But contrary to your experience, my muslim friends would always try and convert me and threaten me with hellfire and no christian ever has. Islam has been by far the most prominently evangelical religion in my life and I am more critical of it than I am of Christianity because I think it's an even more totalitarian and political belief system. I'm kind of apathetic about Christianity, I feel quite opposed to Islam. That said, I don't believe in banning religions and I think that as long as its a private thing between Muslims, they should be allowed to go to that unadorned and unused room in my highschool to pray, and if Christians need some small, private, and reasonable accommodation that is also okay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2013, 02:15 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,687 posts, read 3,106,764 times
Reputation: 1842
Crosses in a public park isn't pushing one religion over the other if we allow other religions to put their own memorials too. Atheists should respect other people's right to their own beliefs like I do. Trying to convert people isn't harmful to society. That's freedom of expression. Would you be against giving the right to atheists to try to convert people to atheism?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2013, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,080 posts, read 14,344,082 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:

There was a Muslim prayer room at my Quebec public highschool
How long ago was that? The niqab was also allowed in government institutions. Not any more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2013, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 1,941,555 times
Reputation: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Crosses in a public park isn't pushing one religion over the other if we allow other religions to put their own memorials too. Atheists should respect other people's right to their own beliefs like I do. Trying to convert people isn't harmful to society. That's freedom of expression. Would you be against giving the right to atheists to try to convert people to atheism?
It is. It's ceding the right to use of public property to a private group at the expense of others. Even if we agree to allow the entire place to become nothing but religious monuments, we're still tacitly ranking religions as we give prime space to some, less desirable space to others.

You're welcome to put up any memorial you like, making as visible to the public as you like - on private property.

You're also welcome to proselytize as much as you please, provided you don't become a nuisance while doing so. Unless you're responding to another post in the same paragraph, I'm not sure, exactly, why you included that - I'd already argued that displays of religious expression were protected by the Charter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2013, 03:31 PM
 
484 posts, read 1,287,964 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Are there really schools that don't allow prayer yet provide a pray room for muslims? wow, both should not be allowed in schools. Hypocrisy and double standards are alive and well in Canada.
My high school and university had pray rooms. All of the pray rooms I have seen are multi-faith, anyone can use them. It's just that Muslim students use them more than others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top