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Old 05-13-2013, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
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I am a Catholic. I was curious if the traditional Christian denominations were on the decline in Canada as "native" Canadians drop out of organized religion and their places taken by immigrants. I am not against Christianity. I am against secularism and atheism. It is not "the church" that should change to the spirit of the times. It is the know-it-alls who think religion is obsolete who need to change their ways!
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:07 AM
 
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:20 AM
 
1,217 posts, read 2,435,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
I am a Catholic. I was curious if the traditional Christian denominations were on the decline in Canada as "native" Canadians drop out of organized religion and their places taken by immigrants. I am not against Christianity. I am against secularism and atheism. It is not "the church" that should change to the spirit of the times. It is the know-it-alls who think religion is obsolete who need to change their ways!
Both Canada and the US are secular but Canada is more secular, overall. Religion just doesn't seem to play as much of a role in the life of most first world countries nowadays; therefore, regular churchgoers (at least Catholic bc I'm Catholic and its what I observe) here are mostly immigrants were religion plays a bigger role in their upbringing. There are exceptions and certain parts of the US are more religious than other parts (e.g. the coasts are not that religious compared to the south for e.g.) but it works out that the US is overall above average compared to other developed countries in religous worship. Generations born in the Canada (and large parts of the US for that matter) just don't seem interested in religion anymore as far as I see. And I'm not passing judgement if this is good or bad btw. People in modern society seem either: consumed with money/status/material items/having fun or struggling to get by with little means, and relgious worship just doesn't seem high on the list for the majority. In addition, with diversity on the rise in both US and Canada, it stands to reason that secularism will become more prevalent to accomodate the diverse populace. In Canada, most new immigrants are from Asia (China, HK) or South Asia (India) for instance, and neither group are usually Catholic.

Last edited by johnathanc; 05-13-2013 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
564 posts, read 981,211 times
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Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
What sounds terrible? That new immigrants are making up the majority of congregations in many parts of Canada? Or that many parishes are simply dying out from lack of a congregation... <rest snipped>
Fantastic post. In an age of unparalleled access to information, our reliance on superstitious beliefs fades.

I don't even argue with true believers anymore. It's like trying to explain calculus to a toddler.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
I am a Catholic. I was curious if the traditional Christian denominations were on the decline in Canada as "native" Canadians drop out of organized religion and their places taken by immigrants. I am not against Christianity. I am against secularism and atheism. It is not "the church" that should change to the spirit of the times. It is the know-it-alls who think religion is obsolete who need to change their ways!
Atheism and secularism pose a better alternative to theocracy, or a society dominated by religion. For me (and many people), spirituality is a deeply personal experience, and I don't want a monolithic religious institution telling me how I should think and act (especially when these organizations are responsible for some horrible crimes and are tremendous hypocrites. Example: Jesus' message was love, yet many so-called Christians concern themselves more with judging their neighbour than loving them). The Inquisition of the Renaissance is an excellent example of what can happen when organized religion attempts to impose itself on people. The sectarian fighting within Islam is another, more recent example.

For me, I would only go back to the Catholic Church if it divested itself of most of most of superfluous wealth, donating all the proceeds to both secular and religious charities and for helping society's outcasts (just as Jesus associated with and healed lepers, and befriended thieves, tax collectors, and other outcasts, the Catholic Church should stop judging certain people as immoral, and start following the example of their "saviour"). Then they would have to make amends for the sexual abuse of countless young men and women, offering a sincere apology as opposed to their typical hand-wringing that priests could be possible of such horrible acts. They would compensate victims of abuse (both from sexual abuse, residential schools, and other crimes committed by the Church), allow priests to marry, stop opposing birth control, start showing more concern for the environment and our destruction of the planet, accept homosexuals into the fold and allow women to be priests.

This is far from a comprehensive list, but perhaps most importantly the Catholic Church must decide if they are Judeo-Christians, or Christians. If the Church wants to retain its Jewish roots, it must reconcile the many contradictions between the Old Testament and the New - because they are glaring. Regardless of the choice, the dogma must end and Catholics must return to the roots of their faith - the Gospels, and the teachings of Jesus. All the beliefs about the Holy Trinity, trans- substantiation, Jesus' divine nature, Jesus as God, Jesus as perfect, and so on must be done away with because they are a creation of the early Church and are mostly unsubstantiated by the Gospels. The focus should be on Jesus' teachings, his sermons, his contribution to the development of the notion of human rights that stem from his equal treatment of all peoples and insistent belief in love as the answer to all of humanity's ills. The Gospels should be approached in an honest way (preferably a literary-historical approach as a way of understanding and accepting the vast differences between the canonical Gospels, coming to terms with them, and perhaps taking the non-canonical Gospels more seriously, particularly Gnostic texts like the Gospel of Thomas)

These are just a few things that would have to change for me to go back to the Church. But because they will never happen, I base my religious beliefs on Jesus' teachings of love and inherent human dignity. I also incorporate aspects of other religions, including Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Shintoism, and First Nations spirituality. Combined with philosophical teachings I admire tremendously, which have helped me understand reality and my place in it, and science (particularly the theory of evolution and cosmology) which has helped explain many of the mysteries of creation, I have created a diverse system of beliefs that suits me just fine.

I believe that my kind of spirituality has become very popular in developed nations outside of America, where organized religion remains strong (which is puzzling to me for a number of reasons). People have realized that organizations like the Catholic Church simply do not satisfy their spiritual needs, and they have turned away from the Church, not because they are atheists, but because the rigid dogma and hypocrisy of the Church has forced them to find other ways of expressing their spirituality. For me, it has taken many years of learning and study to arrive at my current beliefs, but there is no Church for me. I'm sure that millions of Canadians feel the same.

I also believe that atheism has become popular because organized religion has discredited spirituality. In the end, the Church has no one to blame for their decline but themselves.

Last edited by TOkidd; 05-13-2013 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:58 AM
 
2,253 posts, read 3,389,513 times
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Filipinos are one of the fastest growing groups in Canada and many of them are devout Catholics, giving a boost to (and changing the demographics) of Catholic churches in Canada. I know they've been heavily courted by the Conservatives by appealing to "traditional values."
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,084 posts, read 13,592,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
Filipinos are one of the fastest growing groups in Canada and many of them are devout Catholics, giving a boost to (and changing the demographics) of Catholic churches in Canada. I know they've been heavily courted by the Conservatives by appealing to "traditional values."
This is true. I work with a lot of Filipino nurses and they are fanatics. To the point of asking patients to pray instead of relying on medication! Appalling.
They spend their weekends at the St Joseph's Oratory on their knees and the evenings gambling at the Montreal Casino.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:15 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 3,389,513 times
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Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
I think you've seriously misinterpreted his views on the matter. Also, who the heck mentioned Jews? Why would the proportion of Jews to Christians worldwide be an important ratio in this discussion? It seems like a total non-sequitur.
Yes strange indeed. Jews have always been a tiny minority of the world's population and Jews and Christians are hardly "in competition" with each other given that Judaism doesn't exactly actively seek converts.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,856 posts, read 9,813,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
Yes strange indeed. Jews have always been a tiny minority of the world's population and Jews and Christians are hardly "in competition" with each other given that Judaism doesn't exactly actively seek converts.
I figured it out later, Schmo is a yiddish term so she decided that Mouldy Old Schmo was a Jew and that's why she was going on about it. Really bad form going after the numbers though, considering why there's only about half the number of Jews in the world there ought to be.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: B.C., Canada
13,136 posts, read 11,661,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post

<snip>........ I base my religious beliefs on Jesus' teachings of love and inherent human dignity. I also incorporate aspects of other religions, including Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Shintoism, and First Nations spirituality. Combined with philosophical teachings I admire tremendously, which have helped me understand reality and my place in it, and science (particularly the theory of evolution and cosmology) which has helped explain many of the mysteries of creation, I have created a diverse system of beliefs that suits me just fine.

I believe that my kind of spirituality has become very popular in developed nations outside of America, where organized religion remains strong (which is puzzling to me for a number of reasons). People have realized that organizations like the Catholic Church simply do not satisfy their spiritual needs, and they have turned away from the Church, not because they are atheists, but because the rigid dogma and hypocrisy of the Church has forced them to find other ways of expressing their spirituality. For me, it has taken many years of learning and study to arrive at my current beliefs, but there is no Church for me. I'm sure that millions of Canadians feel the same....... <snip>
Excellent post and I think you have expressed what is a growing spiritual belief system that is held by millions of Canadians and people in many other nations, including millions of people in America.

.

Last edited by Zoisite; 05-13-2013 at 12:56 PM..
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