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Old 05-15-2013, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
I hope I meet Welshschmaltz and Pappacrappa one day. I will give you some "Southern Hospitality" you won't forget! If you know what's good for you, don't come down here propagating your atheist know-it-all crapola!
I know you were frustrated and even deliberately provoked, but you should realize that this type of reaction is what gives the southern U.S. a bad reputation in other parts of the States, Canada and many regions of the world even.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,080 posts, read 14,324,813 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I know you were frustrated and even deliberately provoked, but you should realize that this type of reaction is what gives the southern U.S. a bad reputation in other parts of the States, Canada and many regions of the world even.
I most certainly did not deliberately provoke him. He asked why I'm an atheist and what my beliefs are, so I told him. In return, he threatened to shoot me. Or club me. Or whatever they do down in Mississippi.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
I most certainly did not deliberately provoke him. He asked why I'm an atheist and what my beliefs are, so I told him. In return, he threatened to shoot me. Or club me. Or whatever they do down in Mississippi.
I didn't name names!
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
10,060 posts, read 12,810,783 times
Reputation: 7168
There are hundreds of books making the case for religion, Christianity, Catholicism, etc. written by people who have spent most of their adult lives studying theology. If you aren't convinced by them, why should you expect me to convince you? I know, these people aren't intelligent. But this guy, he was intelligent!

Karl Marx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,352,826 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
There are hundreds of books making the case for religion, Christianity, Catholicism, etc. written by people who have spent most of their adult lives studying theology. If you aren't convinced by them, why should you expect me to convince you? I know, these people aren't intelligent. But this guy, he was intelligent!

Karl Marx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm in the process of reading "Why Evolution is True," the "Qur'an," and "In Six Days: Why Fifty Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation."

I've also been roving the religion and philosophy forum for about two years...but nonetheless my view is more of a I don't see a reason to believe in a higher power yet type of view.

Regarding Karl Marx: under communist governments, so far as I'm aware, rather than personal desires driving success like in republics, the idea is that all citizens will assist all citizens as an act of patriotism, and that patriotism will be the primary success creator.

Because everyone is assisting everyone else, citizens/government will be less patient than republics, regarding activities that discourage efficiency/productiveness.

Religion would be viewed as a creator of inefficiency...and perhaps as a secondary government that keeps the religious followers from being productive and loyal as they otherwise might.

Therefore, it is, I think, not atheists that necessarily want communisms, but communisms that want atheists.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:30 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 3,722,245 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
There are hundreds of books making the case for religion, Christianity, Catholicism, etc. written by people who have spent most of their adult lives studying theology. If you aren't convinced by them, why should you expect me to convince you? I know, these people aren't intelligent. But this guy, he was intelligent!

Karl Marx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Incidentally is the burden of proof placed on atheists to disprove religious fairy tales? Intelligent people can be delusional too and very good at rationalizing irrational beliefs.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,080 posts, read 14,324,813 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:

There are hundreds of books making the case for religion,
Christianity, Catholicism, etc. written by people who have spent most of their
adult lives studying theology.
.....and not a shred of proof in any of them.
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Canada
196 posts, read 424,503 times
Reputation: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paparappa View Post
An intelligent person is someone who acts based on logic and rationality. Believing in something that has not been proven to exist, and whose very existence is extremely unlikely and paradoxical in many ways, is neither logical nor rational.
I don't doubt that someone can be very good at some- or many things and still be religious, but ultimately they cannot be considered intelligent .
Although MOS's response was out of line, stating point blank that anyone who is religious is not intelligent is a step over the line as well. I may not agree with what someone else believes, but to denigrate them personally, and to make a broad generalization like this does nothing to further the discussion.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:31 AM
 
291 posts, read 476,524 times
Reputation: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterMcTavish View Post
Although MOS's response was out of line, stating point blank that anyone who is religious is not intelligent is a step over the line as well. I may not agree with what someone else believes, but to denigrate them personally, and to make a broad generalization like this does nothing to further the discussion.
It's not a broad generalization. It's the only logical conclusion that can be derived from the facts. Someone who believes something to be true without a single shred of evidence, out of fear or hope, cannot be considered intelligent, period. Everyone likes to think they're intelligent, but very few people actually are.

Furthermore, it's pointless to even try to have a rational discussion with religious people because, if that were possible, there would be no religious people.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Toronto
2,801 posts, read 3,859,178 times
Reputation: 3154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paparappa View Post
It's not a broad generalization. It's the only logical conclusion that can be derived from the facts. Someone who believes something to be true without a single shred of evidence, out of fear or hope, cannot be considered intelligent, period. Everyone likes to think they're intelligent, but very few people actually are.

Furthermore, it's pointless to even try to have a rational discussion with religious people because, if that were possible, there would be no religious people.
So I guess I'm not intelligent. I'll take your word for it, Paparappa.

As humans, we really know next to nothing about the cosmos - as an amateur astronomer and philosopher, I think I can say this quite confidently. Sure, there are mathematicians and physicists who think they are close to the answers, but then some unexpected finding forces them to rethink all their notions of how the universe works and admit that they really don't know all that much. Our theories about how the universe and life evolved sound so solidly scientific, but there is so much missing from our understanding that it is sheer arrogance for anyone to say that people who believe in some sort of higher power are stupid - because really, what do you know? What do any of us know?

I think it is this smug self-righteousness that angers the Schmo, and I don't blame him for being angry. Making threats is not a good way of expressing that anger, but neither does it show much character to disparage people for their faith, seeing as how his faith does no harm to you, but it obviously means very much to him. Insulting a person for having faith in a higher power - calling them stupid and backwards, and insinuating much more - makes you sound like a first-class you-know-what, and is completely uncalled for. If you are an atheist, that's your business. But you know nothing more about the secrets of the universe than any believer does, and all of us know next-to-nothing when it comes down to it, so let's not pretend we do by making categorical statements.

200 years ago, the science of the cosmos that we now take for granted would also have been seen as insanity and stupidity, because there was no proof for it. The evidence was out there, but no one had the means to see it, to detect it, to analyze it. The same is true now for perhaps as much as 99% of reality, so to act like one who believes in more than what we now have the evidence to prove is an idiot is showing typical human arrogance that we have the means to know and explain everything with math and science, and nothing out there is beyond our comprehension - a falsehood that has been exposed countless times. At the same time you point to a lack of evidence as proof that there is no God, yet how can you say we even have sufficient evidence to make that claim? you fail to realize that there is so much out there beyond what can be proved or even known by science; beyond what we could ever imagine. Perhaps the answer is not to be found in organized religion, but neither will it be found in an outright rejection of everything beyond what we can prove with our minuscule human capabilities.

Last edited by TOkidd; 05-16-2013 at 12:32 PM..
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