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A difference between Canada and the US is that Canada constantly compares itself to the US, and not vice-versa. I'm doing done half of my university in the US and half in Canada. The students at my university constantly compare themselves to the US that you would think Canada is an attachment of it. In sports, the USA is the team to beat. If the Canadian dollar gains on the US dollar, newspaper articles like the one above are published. There is a constant quest to differentiate Canada from the US. It's practically taught in my university that Americans are more rude, uneducated, and racist than Canadians. I don't know why but some students think Americans look down on them or hate them.
Example: In my Middle Eastern Studies class, a girl wrote on the board before class (before everyone had entered, so we could all see it) in big bold letters "CANADA IS MORE TOLERANT AND MULTICULTURAL THAN THE US". There was no event or action that precipitated this event. That's the Canadian inferiority complex at it's best. Honestly, that kind of stuff is an embarrassment.
Example 2: In the same class, my professor (An American Muslim) mentioned that there was a greater percentage of Muslims in Canada than the US. Several people whooped, hollered, and cheered. The professor seemed confused by this reaction. Looking up the statistic after class, I found Canada's muslim community constitutes a whopping 1.5% percent larger than that in the US. Again, pretty ridiculous.
Example 3: My professor (of all people) of my American History class randomly (and yes i mean randomly - it really had nothing to do with the subject at hand) makes the statement that most Americans don't even know anyone speaks French in Canada. A pretty unfounded statement. Secondly, when we would learn about an American defeat in a battle, some students would cheer. This particular type of attitude from my university colleagues is embarrassing not only to me, but others who disagree with it to. At the same time, the same people would talk about how the Americans are so close-minded or flag waving nuts, and that in Canada people are more polite and tolerant.
These incidences bothered me enough to convince me write a letter describing these incidences to the administration of the university. This simply shouldn't be tolerated at a university level. Concordia University never responded to my letter. This "patriotism" is not so much "We Are Canadian" as much as it is "We Are NOT American". This type of "patriotism" is defined by negatives. If this is Canadian patriotism, leave me out. This is by no means a generalization of the attitude of Canadian students - many of my friends and classmates for example are well aware of this attitude and are fed up with it as well. But rather than speak out against it they seem to be content with just not participating in it.
Going to university in the US (I'm doing university 2 years in the US, 2 years in Canada) nobody could care less what Canada is doing. If we learn about a battle the US wins, there is not a mini-celebration in the class. If some misfortune happens in Canada, it is never viewed as a positive. Most people think of Canada as something like a little brother. Truth is, I think a lot of Americans are perplexed as to what exactly the difference between a Canadian and guy from the northern US exactly is. They are not really clear on what makes a Canadian different - they meet a guy from Ontario and don't realize he is foreign until he says he is Canadian. Perhaps it is this which bothers some Canadians. When it comes down to it though, people are just people, I've met some clowns on both sides of the border.
*Concordia University is overwhelmingly English-Canadian although located in Montreal. My experiences here may not be representative of every region of Canada and the attitudes at my US university (Towson University near Baltimore,MD), may not be representative of other regions of the US.
I went to university in English in Ontario a few decades ago and witnessed pretty much the same thing. Like you I studied in humanities (history, political science, sociology, etc.) and the urge to distinguish Canadians from Americans based on ad hoc claims of superiority (especially moral) was almost obsessive. (Not sure if the same thing exists in more purely scientific fields of study.)
I think it may be for some Canadians that there is so little in their eyes that truly makes them different from Americans that the insecurity rises to the surface and it makes them act in this unpleasant way.
It is sadly unfortunate that so many citizens in a tremendously successful country like Canada have to define their identity based on what they are NOT as opposed to what the ARE, like most countries/nations do.
The young ladys statement on the board does have some merit...I would slightly agree with her even tho I have NOT been back there for a while.
This comment, in support of a blanket statement that Canada is more tolerant and multicultural than the U.S., sort of proves hobbesdj's point.
It is true that Canada approaches diversity in a different way than the U.S. does, and many people may prefer Canada's approach. That is their choice.
However, I have yet to see a visible minority Canadian prime minister, and no minority culture is integrated into the Canadian mainstream like African-American culture is integrated into the overall American culture.
Even French Canadian culture (involving close to 1/4 of the country's population) is totally ignored by almost all non-francophone Canadians, to the point where many don't even know it exists or even emphatically deny that it does exist.
Well "hobbesdj" as a former Canuck I take a little offense in your post on Canada/US differences
You are talking about some US LOST or WON battle. Is this past Canadian/Us history?...your NOT very explicit when this is supposed to have happened. American students would never holler or cheer re any battle.
I studied Canadian history when growing up in Ontario...you should know the war of 1812 was fought partially in southern Ontario/Niagara Falls etc.
American kids (mine included) never studied Canadian History...mainly US history.
As to the whooping and hollering...was that in Montreal or in the US? I never saw any of that when in High school in Hamilton. Of course this was in the late 1930's and early 40's. Maybe students have gotten a little more rowdy over the past few decades.
The young ladys statement on the board does have some merit...I would slightly agree with her even tho I have NOT been back there for a while.
Being a former Canuck and still having family back there still understand the Canadian way of thinking.
Would love to dangle with your opinions but will hold myself back...life is too short.
Steve
In reference to battles of 1812 in my US history class at Concordia University in Montreal - Professor Anya Zilberstein. At one point some girl was like "the Canadians burned doswn the white house" (Somehow British troops stationed in the British North American colony of Nova Scotia = Canadian), and kids started whooping like at a hockey game.
In reference to battles of 1812 in my US history class at Concordia University in Montreal - Professor Anya Zilberstein. At one point some girl was like "the Canadians burned doswn the white house" (Somehow British troops stationed in the British North American colony of Nova Scotia = Canadian), and kids started whooping like at a hockey game.
It's called bragging rights. And if you don't think there will be cheering in the classrooms when the USA finally kicks Iraq's butt . . . I think you are sorely mistaken. The war of 1812 was (I believe) the only time Canada and the USA has ever gone to war. And Canada won. It's not like it (the war or the victory!) would ever happen again! And thank gawd for that! LOL
I wouldn't get too uptight about some hormonal teenagers/young adults having a whoop in the classroom. There are bigger dragons to slay. And at the end of the day, despite the friendly rivallry, Canada and the USA are pretty darn good neighbours for each other. And thank gawd for that as well.
And if you don't think there will be cheering in the classrooms when the USA finally kicks Iraq's butt . . . I think you are sorely mistaken.
The U.S. already kicked Iraq's butt. Problem is, it proved to provide us with more of a headache than before. Now, Iraq has largely been tuned out by the U.S. public.
I said it before in another thread......Canadians largely seem patriotic about not being American. In many ways, it can't be helped. Trudeau was quoted as saying that being next to the U.S. was like trying to share a bed with an elephant, or something to that effect. Canadians can't help but notice that we're here, whereas the opposite isn't always true. Overseas, without the flag, Canadians are easily confused with Americans. Problem is, the constant contrasts to the U.S. (as exemplified in pop culture through the I Am Canadian ads), IMO, don't do much to foster a uniquely Canadian identity.
Overseas, without the flag, Canadians are easily confused with Americans.
We have pretty much the same accent. I am intrigued actually by how frequently I get asked if I am "North American"!
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmasterb
Problem is, the constant contrasts to the U.S. (as exemplified in pop culture through the I Am Canadian ads), IMO, don't do much to foster a uniquely Canadian identity.
I would agree with that. Many (not all!) Canadians tend to identify first from their province, then as a Canadian. In Canada I thought of myself as a herring choker first (a New Brunswicker) and then as a Canadian. In some places (e.g. Nova Scotia) it gets even finer than that and you have the Cape Bretoners who are first and foremost Capers, then Nova Scotians, then Canadians.
There's no fixing it really - nor is there really a need to - I think the Canadian identity will continue to develop and deepen over time - we're still a relatively young country in the grand scheme of the world.
It's called bragging rights. And if you don't think there will be cheering in the classrooms when the USA finally kicks Iraq's butt . . . I think you are sorely mistaken. The war of 1812 was (I believe) the only time Canada and the USA has ever gone to war. And Canada won. It's not like it (the war or the victory!) would ever happen again! And thank gawd for that! LOL
I wouldn't get too uptight about some hormonal teenagers/young adults having a whoop in the classroom. There are bigger dragons to slay. And at the end of the day, despite the friendly rivallry, Canada and the USA are pretty darn good neighbours for each other. And thank gawd for that as well.
My point in saying that was that there wasn't really a Canada as we know it today - at that time people who were reffered to as Canadian or Canadien were what we would consider Quebecois (French-Canadian) today - and most of them chose to remain neutral. That's why some Quebecois feel that they are the real Canadians and that they were colonized by the British Empire. Some of them, like Charles Salaberry, helped the British, and some of them helped the Americans. The few thousand people we would consider "English Canadians" who resided in the Eastern Townships of Quebec and the forts of Ontario and Nova Scotia wouldn't have even referred to themselves as Canadian. In my classes we've read first-hand accounts of letters written by these provincial militia soldiers - they would refer to themselves as "British", "Provincials", or even still "Loyalists" and the people from the US as "Americans". Even if one looks at the names of units from modern day Ontario or Nova Scotia, their names were never "The Canadian xxxxx Regiment" - only units comprimised by French-speakers (Quebecois) such as the Voltigeurs and the Canadian Dragoons were referred to as "Canadian", even if the officers were sometimes British. Most of the English speaking militia soldiers from modern day Ontario, Eastern Townships and Nova Scotia were themselves or the sons of United Empire Loyalists - the roughly 2% of Americans who remained staunchly loyal to the crown during the revolution of 17776-83 and who migrated north to "British North America" to remain part of the Empire.
This is why English Canada and the US are different countries today and why they seem so eerily similar - what we consider today to be English Canadians are the people who historically rejected nationalism (hence the identity of I am NOT American) in favor of an identity as part of the British Empire. They decided that they are not American, and tried to hold onto the concept as part of the greater British Empire as late as the 20th century - notice "Canadian" citizenship didn't come into being until 1947. The Americans considered themselves to be fighting to kick the British and the Loyalists out of North America - they didn't consider themselves to be fighting a "Canadian" nationality. Furthermore, the provincial militias who fought in the war would have no idea what the maple leaf represents, what parliament is, what Toronto is, and wouldn't be keen on the idea of Canadian democracy. They would even spell with "American English". They would, however, identify with the Queen and the Union Jack.
Saying the "Canadians" defeated the Americans in the War of 1812 is like saying the "Americans" conquered Quebec and Nova Scotia (Acadia) from France in 1760 and 1713, respectively. There was no concept of "American" identity at that time either. The British Empire repelled the American invasion of Canada during the War of 1812 and returned to the status quo.
Even French Canadian culture (involving close to 1/4 of the country's population) is totally ignored by almost all non-francophone Canadians, to the point where many don't even know it exists or even emphatically deny that it does exist.
I'm not even going to lie to you - before I came here I didn't realize how different Quebecois are. I thought they were simply French speaking Canadians because that's how they are usually presented in the Anglophone world when dealing with history, politics and sociology in regards to Canada. It really goes a lot further than that. I really love Canada (as a whole) but now I can completely understand why some Quebecois want independence. The lack of knowledge about Quebecois culture and identity in English Canada, the US is really surprising. Even here in Montreal one of my neighbors told me not to bother learning that s**t - in reference to French! I really think someone needs to speak French to get the whole picture.
My point in saying that was that there wasn't really a Canada as we know it today - at that time people who were reffered to as Canadian or Canadien were what we would consider Quebecois (French-Canadian) today - and most of them chose to remain neutral. That's why some Quebecois feel that they are the real Canadians and that they were colonized by the British Empire.
My point in saying that was that there wasn't really a Canada as we know it today ...
Saying the "Canadians" defeated the Americans in the War of 1812 is like saying the "Americans" conquered Quebec and Nova Scotia (Acadia) from France in 1760 and 1713, respectively.
Thanks - but I actually do know my history - I am just not into splitting hairs over labels and regions. History is largely a continum and "Upper Canada" at that time was Canada for all intents and purposes. Fact of the matter is, the "Americans" wanted "Canada" and Thomas Jefferson thought it would be a walk in the park. Wrong.
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