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Are you trying to justify the Charter of Values? Why on Earth would you support it? It's absolutely ridiculous to decide after all these years to band "overt" religion symbols at work for public service workers. It's cleary an attack on muslims, jews and sikhs, and nothing less.
it attempts to maintain the neutrality of the Quebec government. Has nothing to do with freedom of religion, not to say people from specific religious background.
you "liberals" under the pretentious freedom flag are blowing this whole thing out of proportion.
France even banned burqa in public completely and I wholely support it and think Canada should do the same. Is someone even supposed to be allowed the cover his entire face when walking into a bank, or an airport?
Let's face is, freedom is always restricted. It is like you are not free to pee in Dundas Square.
it attempts to maintain the neutrality of the Quebec government. Has nothing to do with freedom of religion, not to say people from specific religious background.
you "liberals" under the pretentious freedom flag are blowing this whole thing out of proportion.
France even banned burqa in public completely and I wholely support it and think Canada should do the same. Is someone even supposed to be allowed the cover his entire face when walking into a bank, or an airport?
Let's face is, freedom is always restricted. It is like you are not free to pee in Dundas Square.
What's even more interesting is the amazing contradiction of having our most liberal thinkers constantly fighting for the freedom of people living in our societies to impose the most extremely illiberal practices within their communities, often through not-so-nice coercion or even dare I say violence.
it attempts to maintain the neutrality of the Quebec government. Has nothing to do with freedom of religion, not to say people from specific religious background.
you "liberals" under the pretentious freedom flag are blowing this whole thing out of proportion.
France even banned burqa in public completely and I wholely support it and think Canada should do the same. Is someone even supposed to be allowed the cover his entire face when walking into a bank, or an airport?
Let's face is, freedom is always restricted. It is like you are not free to pee in Dundas Square.[/quote
You seem to be to be implying its all about the burka and while i agree some walking around in a tent maybe required to show their face once in a while its about much more than the burka,
Also i dont buy this Quebec wants some kind of neutrality in government as they had nuetrality long before this charter of values came up, if these people who wear head scarves ,kippas, and turbans were preaching their religious values to all the children in the schools, all the patients in the hospitals, all the co workers that people with turbans work with then you might have a valid point but thats not whats happening in this case, mrs Marois and her separatist are engaging in a bit of racial cleansing in this instance at the expense of some of Quebecs visible minorities.. As for it being only in the public sector? you cant seriously believe the next step if it passes will be to expand it into the private sector as well.
botticelli whats with the super anti liberal stance? sounds like the same attitude i see from American teabaggers.
What's even more interesting is the amazing contradiction of having our most liberal thinkers constantly fighting for the freedom of people living in our societies to impose the most extremely illiberal practices within their communities, often through not-so-nice coercion or even dare I say violence.
And I say all of this as a liberal myself BTW.
AJ you think we shouldnt fight racism,xenophobia,discrimination,racial intolerance where ever it pops up particularly in our own back yard..?
We could go round and round with this issue forever,it seems many in Quebec really like this kind of legislation many others see the broader implications, IMO This Charter of Quebec values is wrong on many levels and its opposition has nothing to do with extremely illiberal practices .
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[quote=jambo101;31431694]
You seem to be to be implying its all about the burka and while i agree some walking around in a tent maybe required to show their face once in a while its about much more than the burka,
Also i dont buy this Quebec wants some kind of neutrality in government as they had nuetrality long before this charter of values came up, if these people who wear head scarves ,kippas, and turbans were preaching their religious values to all the children in the schools, all the patients in the hospitals, all the co workers that people with turbans work with then you might have a valid point but thats not whats happening in this case, mrs Marois and her separatist are engaging in a bit of racial cleansing in this instance at the expense of some of Quebecs visible minorities.. As for it being only in the public sector? you cant seriously believe the next step if it passes will be to expand it into the private sector as well.[quote]
On the contrary, there is nothing wrong with Muslims trying to enroll no members. That's their freedom, isn't it? I see people on the street trying to convince others Jesus exists and is great all the time. They are all nutjobs but that's their right.
On the other hand, banning religious symbols and attire in the public sector, I think it is appropriate. I don't care if it is biased against certain people in practice as you argued. A public sector worker should be neutral and show no affiliation of any religion (what you do and wear outside job is your own business), and be dressed in a completely neutral and professional way too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101
botticelli whats with the super anti liberal stance? sounds like the same attitude i see from American teabaggers.
Because the so-called liberals can be extremely hypocritical and pretentious, raising the giant flags of freedom and equality as if they are the most intelligent and tolerant people on earth and anyone else is just backwater yokels.
I am in favour of issues such as gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, abortion, and I am against gun ownership or any war the western countries start against any middle eastern countries, but I won't call myself a liberal as this doesn't carry any positive meanings for me.
Also, comments seem to going off in all directions and it's worth pointing out that this only applies to people working in the public service, when they are working.
Unlike other places in the world, this does not apply to, say, walking down the street in your own free time.
No, but that's the next step, if this goes ahead as planned. They are clearly testing the waters.
Sometimes I wish Quebec would separate, especially when they start with this xenophobic crap. Join the herd or get trampled and left behind. The rest of us are headed to the future, not hanging onto a glorified past with a white-knuckled deathgrip.
No, but that's the next step, if this goes ahead as planned. They are clearly testing the waters.
Sometimes I wish Quebec would separate, especially when they start with this xenophobic crap. Join the herd or get trampled and left behind. The rest of us are headed to the future, not hanging onto a glorified past with a white-knuckled deathgrip.
I said this in post 74 of this thread:
Not saying this is the only aspect of the debate but if the future looks like all or even most of our women in niqabs or burkas then it looks a hell of a lot like the (not-so-glorious nor enlightened) past to me.
The following excerpt is from Farzana Hassan's book "Unveiled: A Canadian Muslim woman's struggle against Misogyny, Sharia and Jihad". It is taken from the chapter "The Burka Debate" The Supreme court of Canada ruled on Thursday, December 20, 2012 that the niqab would not be permissible in courts of law in the majority of cases.
I firmly believe that legislation protecting the rights of women who are forced into wearing the niqab is not only desirable but essential. The influence of radicalism grows stronger by the day. As more Muslims become radicalized, the expectation to wear the burka proliferates. This is so because burka advocates are stubbornly doctrinaire and their ultimate goal is to spread this practice among all Muslims by scaring them with hellfire theology. That is why I see an increasing number of burka-clad women in my neighbourhood mall. These swaddled women are barely able to contribute positively to society. They cannot easily become nurses or doctors, bus drivers or electricians. Indeed the impracticality of the burka marginalizes its wearers, and a society that allows such marginalization risks being perceived as dysfunctional. It seems burka advocates are concerned only about the rights of women to "choose" to wear a niqab or burka. The truth is that there are several other rights, of much greater importance, such as the right to choose what career to adopt and whom to marry, that these retrogressive advocates deliberately ignore.
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