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It is a sad day for the tech industry of Canada. If a superstar like BB can fail so utterly what the chances are for other Canadian tech companies to rise above this tough competition globally? I wonder what Fairfax is going to do with BB? Is it going to inject more capital, revamp the company and come up with new iPad-like product? What possibly could they do? Well, at least it is a Canadian company. It is better than being sold to a foreign company, torn apart and sold as scraps, I guess.
^^^^^^ The company was renamed BlackBerry (not RIM anymore). BlackBerry's failure had little-to-nothing to do with Canada or Canadians. What is with all this Canada bashing on this thread? Care to elaborate on the relationship between "Canada's problems" and BlackBerry's failure? BB failed due to several problems, and Canada was NOT one of them.
No country innovates at the rate of the U.S., so it is unfair to hold Canada to that standard.
melancholy and sadness my friends
Why are you so sad about BB? Are you sad just because it is based out of Waterloo? It started off as a great company that didn't produce and failed. End of story. It is too bad, but I'm far more disappointed with incompetent management more than anything else, and don't want to waste my time being "sad". That's not right attitude IMO. The fact that it was build out of Canada in the first place is an encouraging story in my mind that it can be done.
Who is bashing Canada? Why are you so sensitive? We all agreed that Canada is not a major tech innovator. If we had more entrepreneurial talent in our Canadian system, then perhaps we'd have more RIMs or perhaps RIM may have not failed in the first place. That's the point and the bigger issue worth discussing. How do we learn from this and make things better. Unless you want to talk specifics about late and failed product launches and other corporate strategy blunders along the way or are we just going to express how "sad" we are. At the end of the day this is business, these guys need to pick up the pieces and move on to build something else.
Last edited by johnathanc; 09-24-2013 at 08:06 AM..
RIM was excluded from the game a long time ago and was destined to fail. Think about it, what exactly has RIM done in the past 5 years, except introducing largely similar models of the blackberries?
Why did Apple and Samsung dominate the game? Those engineers are working like there is no tomorrow. Do we have any idea what kind of work life Apple and Samsung employees have? I personally know a friend at Apple who literally didn't have a single day off for two months during new product development and launching, and I heard that at Samsung, if you don't excel, you pack and leave. Everybody knows in this game, if you don't work harder than others, you end up a loser - which RIM is. Canada doesn't have such a culture. We feel we are entitled to this and that, and get upset if we don't get it, or someone is making more money. Canadian culture hates the rich and loathe competition. We just want to live in our small but incredibly comfortable world insulated from the rest of the cruel world, thanks to our nanny government who makes sure that losers can have a good life as well, and that winners will never be awarded accordingly because, we don't like rich people.
Is RIM's demise surprising? Not at all. The Canadian culture is not interested in encouraging innovation. It has no intention of rewarding success and entrepreneurial spirit. On the contrary, industries love government protection and people are addicted to welfare. Look around, young people are not interested in moving ahead career-wise because Canada's pay structure is so flat. Smart people want to work for the government because pay and benefit is so enviable and life is so easy, why would they want to work in the stressful private sector creating stuff where there is even a chance to be fired someday?
I am sure some people will say "well, we don't want to work like slaves and we need work life balance, welfare, small income gap" etc etc, yep, so did Greece and Spain.
^I agree with the bold.
Blackberry dug thier own grave. While everyone else was innovating, developing new phones, working hard, marketing, promoting etc, Blackberry just sat there and did nothing while their market share declined. They kept releasing the same phones over and over again. They finally released the Blackberry 10 phones/operating system (which is like 4 years behind compared to the competition) but there is nothing special about them and it was too little too late.
This is not Canada's fault. Not Apple's fault. Not Google or Samsung's fault either. It's Blackberry's own fault.
Toys go in and out of style. Most of our so called technology is really not needed to ensure human survival and comfort. They are habitual amusements....Toys!....Blackberry if it were of real value would continue to thrive....Information is not power....not in today's modern and overly abundant form....What is power and what is real wealth ....are things that sustain us. Those people working that generate real wealth are those that grow food. Those that make clothing. Those that build homes and provide fuel....People puttering about and exchanging information for a living are really doing nothing other than pretending they are working.....information is NOT power.... Substance - is power.
Why are you so sad about BB? Are you sad just because it is based out of Waterloo? It started off as a great company that didn't produce and failed. End of story.
Well, I was closely associated with the company in more ways than one. And me and many others who knew about the BB technology thought that their QNX system was going to change the face of mobile computing.
People who know about BB still think that their technology is way superior to Apple's iOS and Google's Android. Heck, even Watsa valued the company at $40 per share a few days before making his $9 per share offer.
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Who is bashing Canada? Why are you so sensitive? We all agreed that Canada is not a major tech innovator.
Well, I am not sensitive about "Canada bashing" - I can logically defend that. But I think you were somehow trying to correlate "Canada's lack of XYZ" with "BlackBerry's failure" - a connection I do not see.
You keep saying that Canada is not a major tech innovator. Fine. I agree. Can you tell me what other country except the USA is a major tech innovator? I dont see new innovations and technologies flying out of Europe and Asia ... do you?
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If we had more entrepreneurial talent in our Canadian system, then perhaps we'd have more RIMs or perhaps RIM may have not failed in the first place. That's the point and the bigger issue worth discussing. How do we learn from this and make things better. Unless you want to talk specifics about late and failed product launches and other corporate strategy blunders along the way or are we just going to express how "sad" we are. At the end of the day this is business, these guys need to pick up the pieces and move on to build something else.
I think that you have brought up an excellent point. I will rep you for that. I hope this particular discussion can continue ...
I strongly believe that Canada should duplicate or invent it's own Silicon Valley model. A few things need to change immediately in order for that to happen. 1. Canadian Government needs to relax financial regulations that prevent foreign (American) venture capital from freely flowing into Canadian start-ups. If a Canadian 20-something-year-old wants to start a business, he or she has almost no access to high risk investors. 2. Canadian Government should actively invest in technologies - e.g. battery technology. For a rich country, Canada puts very little into R&D. I say, cut social programs, and invest in R&D - greater return on investment for all (e.g. jobs, higher salaries, etc). 3. Change immigration policy. Stop inviting Indian and Chinese truck drivers and store workers. Invite Indian and Chinese engineers. Look what the US does - via an H1B immigration policy they brain drain the entire world! The goal of Canadian immigration policy should be: We attract the best and the brightest from all around the world.
Toys go in and out of style. Most of our so called technology is really not needed to ensure human survival and comfort. They are habitual amusements....Toys!....Blackberry if it were of real value would continue to thrive....Information is not power....not in today's modern and overly abundant form....What is power and what is real wealth ....are things that sustain us. Those people working that generate real wealth are those that grow food. Those that make clothing. Those that build homes and provide fuel....People puttering about and exchanging information for a living are really doing nothing other than pretending they are working.....information is NOT power.... Substance - is power.
^^^ Blackberry failed because the company didn't have the right talent (especially leadership) to compete. And we don't have right talent because we don't do a good job of fostering innovation in Canada. That is the connection I or others was trying to get across. It is indirect but I believe it is real. If we had a deeper talent pool/culture, then things might of been different for companies like BB or Nortel. I agree with your ideas on building a better entrepreneurial culture in Canada. I work on an H1B so I'm quite familiar with the difference in immigration policy in the US vs. Canada. The US system ain't perfect but they do focus on the cream of the crop and provide them with opportunities to succeed. I've read that 40% of all Fortune 500 companies were started by immigrants or their children in the US.
There are some other countries that have small but real technologically innovative circles off the top of my head like Israel, Ireland, India, Germany, and to some extent Canada has had a couple of high flyers at times. Many asian companies in South Korea, China and Taiwan are getting in the tech game and have grown quite large too. But no other country comes close to the US, I agree with that, but there are still some strong tech circles out there that and have built up successful firms/technologies. Places like Singapore and Dubai are investing heavily in R&D for the future but it doesn't seem like Canada wants to get in this game in a serious manner.
Last edited by johnathanc; 09-24-2013 at 09:56 AM..
^^^ Blackberry failed because the company didn't have the right talent (especially leadership) to compete. And we don't have right talent because we don't do a good job of fostering innovation in Canada. That is the connection I or others was trying to get across. It is indirect but I believe it is real. If we had a deeper talent pool/culture, then things might of been different for companies like BB or Nortel.
I agree and disagree with the points made above. Did BlackBerry lack leadership? Yes. Thorsten Heins was Watsa's minion (and friend). How convenient that the CEOs buddy is buying out the company after a disastrous few years.
But did BlackBerry lack talent? No. Mainly because BlackBerry recruited engineers from all over the world. I dont have the exact figures, but a significant proportion of the top engineers in BB were not Canadian. Great companies attract great talent, and BlackBerry was not great anymore.
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There are some other countries that have small but real technologically innovative circles off the top of my head like Israel, Ireland, India, Germany, and to some extent Canada has had a couple of high flyers at times. Many asian companies in South Korea, China and Taiwan are getting in the tech game and have grown quite large too.
The only two countries that stand out here are Israel and Germany. But the scale and level of innovation in these places is not even a fraction of the American output. All top 25 tech companies are US based. Almost all information technology used the world over has an American link. Etc etc ...
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But no other country comes close to the US, I agree with that, but there are still some strong tech circles out there that and have built up successful firms/technologies. Places like Singapore and Dubai are investing heavily in R&D for the future but it doesn't seem like Canada wants to get in this game in a serious manner.
Yes, and that is Canada's major mistake - it cannot survive on oil and other "Canada-only" businesses like Banks and Telecom anymore.
This is one I have watched for a while as I loved - and I mean LOVED - my Blackberry Tour a few years ago. It was "the greatest thing ever" to me until it seemed the phone was quickly being left behind and never upgraded. I left Blackberry for Android (Evo 4g) and all but forced the wife to ditch her Curve (for an Evo Shift 4g). We've since upgraded again but are loyal to Android now.
As a Canadian stuck in the US I try to keep my finger on the pulse of some big Canadian companies to see how things are going up there. Sad to see that one fall.
problem is talent drain. why would you work here when you can take a 2 hour flight to south and get 1.5x more salary? (tech jobs)
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